WBD458 Audio Transcription
Bitcoin & Personal Proof of Work with Sean Culkin
Interview date: Saturday 5th February
Note: the following is a transcription of my interview with Sean Culkin. I have reviewed the transcription but if you find any mistakes, please feel free to email me. You can listen to the original recording here.
In this interview, I talk to the former American football player and aspiring entrepreneur Sean Culkin. We discuss sacrifice and hard work, the rigours and harsh realities of American football, the trap of the fiat lifestyle, learning to live in the present, and the next steps.
“There’s balance in life, you only get one life, you just want to be so detailed, act like a robot… no, no, live; just moderation, you’ve got to find out what works for you. But when you aren’t happy and satisfied with your current situation you have to make changes, and you’ve got to be intentional, proactive, develop a plan, and stick to it.”
— Sean Culkin
Interview Transcription
Sean Culkin: … he reached out to me about a week ago and it's like yeah, I have this guy. I don't think it's Peter, but he's hitting me up. He's like, "What's your Web3 wallet? What crypto accounts do you use?" and it's like a hacker, portraying himself as you on Instagram.
Peter McCormack: Oh, fuck, man. I get them relentless. I probably get 20 messages a week from friends going, "Is this you?" I'm like, "It's never me. I'm never going to message you on Instagram", but they're getting people, it's bullshit.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, it's crazy.
Peter McCormack: I need to ask you something.
Sean Culkin: All right.
Peter McCormack: This interview's about you, but I'm going to be really selfish right now.
Sean Culkin: Let's do it.
Peter McCormack: I've just had a defeat, just one. After three wins, went down to Ye Olde King's Head in Santa Monica, watched Bedford, and we lost 4-1. I feel fucking terrible. I've never felt this bad with Liverpool and I've supported them for 37 years. I feel terrible. What was that like for you? Was it a job and sometimes you win or you lose; or when you lose, was it awful?
Sean Culkin: Oh, no, it was terrible, because you put so much into that one performance for all of athletics. The NBA, you have more games, MLB you have a ton, but football, you've got 16, now 17 games, so every game counts. So, walking away with defeat, it's part of it, right, someone's going to lose, and you have to have a short-term memory and learn from it, but then quickly, "Okay, how do I get my body and mind back to recovering and getting ready for the next week and preparing for the next team?" You can't let it lead to a capitulation of other losses. But yeah, it sucks, right? You can feel it just viscerally, just a feeling of defeat.
Peter McCormack: Does it make a difference if the whole team plays bad and you're like, "Well, we sucked", or does it just not matter?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, it's different. I mean, if the whole team doesn't play well, then obviously something was off, whether it be preparation, the vibe, just everything that goes into performing well, and you just feel like dogshit, right. You're sitting in the locker room after and emotions are high, people are mad, especially if it's a win that you needed, to maybe go on, the season ends if you don't win this game, the season's over, playoffs. It sucks, but you can only learn from it, right? It's probably hitting you like this because of ownership, right, it's your team now, something new. You're not just a fan, so how are you going to cope with it?
Peter McCormack: It hit me hard during the game. When we went 4-1 down in the first half, I was like, "Fuck, this game's over, we're not going to bring this back", and we didn't. I was like, "I've got to go and interview Culkin, man. How do I even get up for this?" and I'm fine and I've had a drink and I'm okay. But all I can think about is the next game now, what can I do to help them. And I wanted to ask you about that, because I know for you it's different, in that you are a player and I'm not. I can't do anything on the pitch.
Sean Culkin: But you can keep the razzle up, right. You can go in the locker room after and speak to the guys and lift up their spirits and encourage them and, "Hey, I got you guys' back. This sucks for you guys as it does for me". It's an opportunity to also bring that cohesiveness and make you guys even stronger as a bond, right. That's how you have to look at it.
Peter McCormack: How much for you was it winning was important for your career versus winning was important because you wanted the team to win?
Sean Culkin: I've always just embraced team, the team. Everything is for the team. I've always been an unselfish player that would -- yeah, there's times that I was doing a role that I didn't want to do that, I didn't want to be the backup full-back and go up there a couple of hits, and those hurt. When you're playing full-back, you're going full speed into a Mike linebacker, but I knew that that added to the team, and that was a way for me to also show my versatility.
But I've always just believed in -- the teams that I've been on that we've had a lot of success, when I look back at Mizzou, when we won the SEC East twice, back-to-back years, finished top five. The last year Antonio Gates played, Philip Rivers, 2018 I think it was, and we just went on a string of wins. It was contagious, the vibe, the energy, the leadership. It was about the team, we didn't have players that were selfish, we really didn't that year.
Then, when you have those guys that it's all about them and you see off-the-field issues and they're tweeting and they're saying things in interviews that kind of disrupt that pathway that you guys are all doing as a team, it's hard to really be successful and perform well collectively every single week against a team that's also doing the same thing, right, and it's at the highest level. So, yeah, I've always been team first.
Peter McCormack: So, momentum counts for a lot?
Sean Culkin: Oh, yeah, for anything in life, right. You've got to have momentum, you've got to stack those wins, those small ones, and build it up for just how you go about life. But as a team, yeah. And it can go the opposite way too, right. You start going -- that year, we actually went 0-4. We went 0-4 and Rivers pulled us up together on our off day, and we just got together and just drew the line in the sand. And I think we won seven straight wins, completely different dynamic. Momentum, it's beautiful.
Peter McCormack: All right, man, well listen, we hung out in Vegas, went to a boxing match, shot some guns.
Sean Culkin: It was a great time, incredible.
Peter McCormack: Great time, but we said we were going to make a show, and then here we are and your life is changing.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, it's changing.
Peter McCormack: So, you're not going to play football anymore?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, it's been quite the -- I can't believe that, the last time I was on this show with you, the first time we ever spoke. It was nine months ago.
Peter McCormack: Was it that long ago? Jesus.
Sean Culkin: Nine months. That's what Danny said, yeah. So much has happened since then personally, for just self-development and growth and opportunity to just learn and take a step back, to pause and reflect and be intentional with what I want to do with my life, why I'm doing what I'm doing. But it was hard, I think, the writing was on the wall on where the trajectory of my career was going as a player, following my Achilles injury in 2019, and I just feel that based off my passion and interests elsewhere, what do I want the next two-thirds of my life to look like? What was the upside in playing? What was the risk associated with playing this sport?
It's a modern-day Gladiator sport. I've had every injury you can imagine, for the most part, except for my brain, my cognitive health. I want to cherish that, so it just had to make sense. And then, when I started to lose that passion, I guess, it just made sense. I can no longer just avoid reality. It's like my body's been telling me to hang it up ever since I've been trying to come back off that Achilles injury.
Peter McCormack: How many seasons did you get in the NFL?
Sean Culkin: I did four.
Peter McCormack: Four, okay. And, from what age were you a talented footballer? Is this something that happens at 6, or 8, or 12?
Sean Culkin: I played 5th grade. I was a left tackle.
Peter McCormack: What age is that?
Sean Culkin: I was 11. But I'd been playing flag and everything, but it was 5th grade when I started to play tackle football. But for me, just sports in general, it's all I've known. Football, actually I didn't decide to play collegiate football, I was going for basketball. It wasn't until my senior year. I always had offers. My first offer was in 8th grade for basketball.
I went to a football camp where my brother went, at Liberty University, and I show up and I'm there for football camp, and I left with a basketball offer, completely unplanned!
Peter McCormack: Hold on, were you big as a basketball player?
Sean Culkin: No.
Peter McCormack: You were skinny?
Sean Culkin: Skinny. I was 6' 4". Junior year, I was probably 6' 4", 195.
Peter McCormack: Jesus, I'm like 5' 2", 300 pounds!
Sean Culkin: No, I showed up at Missouri my freshman year, I think, at 215. And then a year later, I was 235. And then 240, 245. I got as high as 260 professionally. So, I'm also looking forward to not maintaining that weight, because my body does not want to be that heavy.
Peter McCormack: Hold on, so you have to eat to maintain that weight?
Sean Culkin: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: This is bullshit!
Sean Culkin: I had to eat, going into the combine training, I didn't make it to the combine, wasn't invited. That was another chip on my shoulder. I had my nutritionist, I had to eat 6,000 calories a day.
Peter McCormack: That's about what I have! Well, I drink about that!
Sean Culkin: 6,000 to not lose weight. And then if I wanted to gain, because my metabolic rate was like 3,700. Then I would train and probably do 2,000 to 3,000. Yeah, it was crazy.
Peter McCormack: It's just not fair.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, it's slowed down though. When I had surgery, it was hard, my body kind of changed and I noticed, "Okay, if I don't train that hard and I keep the typical caloric intake, I'm starting to gain a little weight".
Peter McCormack: So, we talked about proof of work a lot, because proof of work is obviously a very important Bitcoin topic. But we talked about it in terms of life, in terms of your sports career, that you had to put the work in. If you wanted to make it in the NFL, you had to constantly put the work in at every level. You've explained to me part of the training, and you explained to me in terms of learning the plays. There's so much to this.
Sean Culkin: So much.
Peter McCormack: And then there comes a point in your life where it's like, "Okay, I'm going to make it", and you expect -- we've got Rich here and Rich said the average career is three years. But I'm assuming your assumption is, "I'm going to get six to ten years".
Sean Culkin: Yeah, that's always a goal. I think the average actually is 2.5 or 2.7. If you get 3, you get vested. So, sometimes --
Peter McCormack: They cut you.
Sean Culkin: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: Motherfuckers.
Sean Culkin: I mean, who knows, right.
Peter McCormack: Is it that length mainly due to injuries, or there's just this churn of players, because there's new ones?
Sean Culkin: The churn rate's high, dude, there's a new batch coming out every year. There are only 53 spots on that active roster. So, you're competing against the world and injuries. Your peak physically, for me at least, from my experience, was when I stepped in as a rookie. And then, when that season ends, your body's just brutally broken down. You've got to rest, recover and then you train and you get back up, but you aren't quite what you were going in as a rookie.
Then, every off season, it's a little bit less and then if you throw in a season-ending injury and you have surgery and you have to recover, now you can't train like you want to, so it's just harder. It can be done, but it's just very, very hard. So, I think it's a combination of performance and skill and injury, getting older; it's part of the game.
You look at Tom Brady, it's a different position, but look at the pliability, The TB12 Method, what he does to protect his body.
Peter McCormack: What's the TB12 Method?
Sean Culkin: It's kind of like his brand and business that he started outside of football, I don't know, maybe give or take a decade, maybe; it's been a little bit, but it just talks about his approach to keeping his body healthy, to sustain those hits and play. I mean, years 18, 19, 20, I don't know. I thought he was going to go to 50. I'm actually really disappointed that he retired officially, was it today actually?
Peter McCormack: It was today, yeah. I thought he was going to do another season, but what do I know? I don't know shit about this. But anyone to be playing, outside of golf, to be playing a professional sport at that level at 44 years old, that's impressive.
Sean Culkin: Incredible. I wanted him to go to 50.
Peter McCormack: It's similar in football, in our football, that we have goalkeepers that are similar to the quarterback. They can play in the Premier League up to 40, because it's a different type of fitness that they need. It's probably more up here, like a mental fitness, than a physical. They have to be physically fit, but they're not running up and down the pitch.
Sean Culkin: I mean, if you zoom out, it's the same for any sport, right. It's like, look at the tight end spot, that's what I play. Pretty much everyone's 6' 5", 255, give or take. Everyone's going to run probably a sub-4,740, everyone can catch, most people can block pretty well, and what separates us, what got you there first off, right, from all the other titans that are playing athletic collegiate level? There's so many. What separates you from the pack that gets you to have an opportunity just to be in the 90-man roster? What separates you, in a month's time, learning a new playbook, new system?
You're getting graded every single play. You're filmed, every play, you're filming, and how do you make that cut to 53? It's a mindset. It's definitely the proof-of-work mindset you cultivate from when you were a kid. I mean, this is my brand, this is my story, I could talk about this all day, what got me from high school to college, how did I get there, the sacrifices that I had to do, no weekends for the most part, I was travelling.
I was on the Adidas team for Florida. The month of July is the on-window where scouts can come. I slept in my bed -- when everyone's in the summer, hanging out and going to the beaches in Florida, I slept in my bed three nights that month. I travelled for camps, for tournaments. It's a grind, man, you've got to do sacrifice. Same thing when you go to college level. You've got to balance a social life, football and those demands.
Peter McCormack: Are there players that they're good enough that they can get away with it?
Sean Culkin: I mean, there are genetic freaks, right, for sure. But at some point, evolution catches up. You can only -- the guys that would be 5%, 6% body fat and walking into the workout, scarfing down McDonald's five minutes before, at some point you see them in ten years when they're playing, talking about how they eat a super-clean diet. Because, you're like a car. You're not just going to put shitty gas in the Porsche, you've got to feed your body right.
Peter McCormack: Do you think there are any games as complicated as American Football, because we were at the Rams/49ers game the other day, and you were explaining bits to me. And I've spent time with you before and you've talked about the plays to me. There's just an insane amount to the sport. You were talking about the spotters up in the stands looking to see who the guys are bringing on, and you bring the other people on; you have the offensive coordinator. There is so much to it. You said a game of chess, but this is genuine 6D chess!
Sean Culkin: Yeah, it's a huge production. There's so many people. You go to the facility, it's a corporation. The amount of work on the back end from the scouts, the analytics, the prep, the scouting from other teams, making it, implementing it to your game plan, changing it just for three or four days leading up to that next opponent, and then first kickoff, then it's live action, balls are flying.
That's why I said it's a chess match, where it's coordinator versus the next coordinator. It's game theory, it's all probabilities to call the play that enhances your success, that one play, and there's a stack of them, 50, 60 times a game. We also talked about you can have two or three plays.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I can think of the one --
Sean Culkin: Yeah, we talked about it. I was like, "Listen, if they lose by seven or less, that one play cost it", and you see that happened with the 49ers that day.
Peter McCormack: Well, there were four plays that stood out to me. There was the very early Rams on the attack, I don't know if you say it the same, and there was the interception within the end zone and there was a turnover, and that changed the game; there was the Rams guy who should have caught the touchdown, again would have changed the game. But there were two on the 49ers: the interception missed when they were ten up; but also, what really stood out was that play where nobody knew what the fuck was going on.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, you could see it.
Peter McCormack: That felt like the stadium and the atmosphere built in the stadium was designed in a way to put off the opposition.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, I mean think about soccer stadiums too. They have it built architecturally just to drop in the sound. It's a huge advantage if you're at home. The other team has to do a silent snap, you can't do your typical cadence because you can't hear. It was still loud for us in the crowd, right?
Peter McCormack: It was so loud.
Sean Culkin: I could barely even think. You're screaming in my ear and I can't even really hear what you're saying. And imagine being on the field trying to hear the snap count. If you're a little late, the defender is watching the ball, they'll just blow you off the water, so you have to see in your peripherals where the ball is and your brains are still rattling because of the noise. It's exciting, man, that's what it's about though. It brings out the buzz in you, because it's a huge adrenaline rush. Man, I miss that.
Peter McCormack: But we talk about the Bitcoin rabbit hole. There is a football rabbit hole, an American Football rabbit hole.
Sean Culkin: Oh, yeah.
Peter McCormack: I knew the basics. Danny was there, his first game. I knew what he knew and I knew a bit more. But even in that game, I learnt a lot more. I learnt from Rich when Rich was talking about the way the plays would happen when they've essentially got one route left; the way the defensive people would give ground up. And I said earlier, I don't think there's a sport as complicated as American Football.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, I'm trying to think of other sports. I mean, baseball, it's sequential plays. Football, soccer, it's like you're constantly going and hockey just kind of keeps… With football, it's that one play, you have six seconds, and it's the IQ needed, time management, where are you on the field, down and distance, what's the score? There's so much that goes into it. And then as the player, you've got to know the playbook and be able to read defences.
In high school, you're just like, "I'm going to run the post, sweet"! College is a huge thing too, it's a huge jump, a huge leap, but usually the plays can be pretty much conveyed just from hand signals. Like, this would be a play, we all know what to do, we learn how to do it. And the NFL, the play count, it's so long. And then when you play with a guy like Philip Rivers and he'll have a check to almost every play. So, he was walking up, you think you're going to play, he doesn't like the look, he'll check out of it, because he's played that long he just understands defences that long.
Then from there, as a player, you're reading and you think you have a pretty good idea, you're just playing probabilities, you see this front from watching that player, how much pressure is on his hands literally looking at the knuckles; you can see what he's going to do. Is he going to be a vertical and bull rush or is he going to be more lateral as a read gap or not? And from the route's perspective, when you're running a route, half the time the coverage changes as a snap. As the play goes on, you have to react and adjust and change what you were thinking pre-snap, and then be on the same page with the quarterback to make it happen.
But from the outsider perspective, you just see, "That one's a hike, that's a ball, nice catch. Oh, you should have caught it, why did you drop it?" There's so much there, right. It's fun though, right.
Peter McCormack: So, what's the difference then for the best players. Is it most people are physically the same? Is it more of a case you have a footballing intelligence to read the game?
Sean Culkin: The IQ has to be there for sure. Again, there are so many players physically that are probably more or less, like how much better really are they? It's about the fit, the chemistry, do they gel with that team; are they good people? That stuff can definitely be felt by the vets and GMs and scouts and coaches. And then, how smart are you to understand and learn the playbook?
You don't have many mess-ups, right. So, I was undrafted, you show up, there's 90 guys. If you're undrafted, you've got a couple of mess-ups, maybe, and that might be it. If you're first round pick, you can mess up left and right, you're going to be there, guaranteed, you're going to be there. They're going to give you every opportunity to understand the system and be at your best. It might take a couple of guys a couple of years, but you mess up one or two times, "No, out, let's get another guy".
It will happen throughout the season too. You see people getting released on the waiver wire every week. There's other guys ready to come on in!
Peter McCormack: Yeah, but you can get cut and end up at the Superbowl?
Sean Culkin: I told you about that, my friend?.
Peter McCormack: You told me about it, yeah.
Sean Culkin: He got cut, or something happened, I don't know if his contract expired. He literally went from player of the Raiders all year to Cincinnati and he posts a picture and he's like, "Superbowl bound!"
Peter McCormack: That's fucking unbelievable!
Sean Culkin: It's fucked up, it's awesome, it's crazy.
Peter McCormack: I kind of want them to win now for that guy, I want him to get his ring.
Sean Culkin: No doubt, same.
Peter McCormack: So, listen, let's go back. Sorry, bitcoiners, we're not talking about Bitcoin, I'm sure you're going to be pissed at us. So, there must have been a moment where you were like, "Okay, I've got to retire". You had to go through that moment?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, and it was like I knew what was needed. It made sense rationally, I knew it was what I wanted, but still, I was not really prepped, or just ready for what was lying ahead, for that next journey. I think you really have to mourn it, right back to what I said earlier. It's like, "Man, I've played athletics for so long". It's like, yeah, you can say my identity's not in the sport, but it kind of is, you know what I mean? Every sense of social engagement and gratification is usually like, "We like Sean, because Sean did X, fill in the blank, on the field, on the court".
So then, gosh, I had identity crisis, kind of, "Who am I? Am I Sean, the football player?" Or, I just made all that huge noise with Bitcoin, it happened fast, it was a rollercoaster. I was like, "Man, this is awesome, I'm doing what I need to be doing, and then boom, the rug got pulled. And then, "Do they only like me because I play football, I'm a bitcoiner or not? This is going through my head.
So, from there, my mental health declined. I dealt with depression, just struggled with plans, I guess, and how I coped with it, because all at once, I've got to figure it and learn and consume as much information and build up what's next for me. But I still needed, like I said, to mourn, to have a statement.
Peter McCormack: Were you mourning the fact that you were retiring early and you've got to find something new to do and find a new identity; or, was a large part of it, "Fuck, I didn't get to finish this, I didn't get to fulfil what I set out to do"?
Sean Culkin: I had to mourn Sean, the athlete, he had to die. It's like they say that every athlete has to die twice, whether that is after high school, college, you go a long period of time. This is why I was so adamant about Bitcoin. You spend so much time prepping and preparing for this one sport and fortunately, it becomes a path to free education and college. It then fortunately became a career for me. That's where I was like, "Where are you storing your money?" I'm not going to have that inflated away. That's why I chose Bitcoin. But when that's gone, that's no longer, and the only games I watched, I think, this year, for the most part we were probably sitting at the game together.
I had this realisation that actually, I remember texting Brian, he's here now, about a couple of weeks ago, where I'm watching this guy that was probably a similar player, tight end-wise, a role that I would have been doing before my injury, what the path looked like for me. And I see him playing so well, and I was like, "Yeah, that was a great period of time for me. That was something that I loved and enjoyed and cherished, and the relationships and opportunities that have happened from the sport", and I just had gratitude and appreciation for what it was, and then also excitement to see that guy play well. It wasn't like, I wasn't being a hater where I think I looked at that and I think, "Man, that should have been me, man. Woe is me, what's going on?"
That's when I really, really owned -- it was liberating. I have chills just thinking about it now. I couldn't imagine actually being a player right now, with what my plans are going forward and how I want to make my impact in this world. That seems like another world to me, a past life. That took a while to get there.
Peter McCormack: So, you've mourned it, you're done?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, yeah. It was hard, but yeah
Peter McCormack: Well, I'm happy for you, dude.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, thanks, man.
Peter McCormack: Because, I've known you for these nine months and we've got to spend some time together and hang out, and I know you've wrestled with it. You didn't know if you were coming back, when you were coming back, and obviously I know now. But you seem in a good place, which is good.
Sean Culkin: Well, I've just learned so much about me and this self-realisation and what I want, and everything's just gravitated towards wellness, because in the last period of that time where it was like, "Am I retiring; am I not? Am I playing; am I not?" I realised in hindsight actually, just recently, where I was doing a fiat lifestyle.
Peter McCormack: You were doing the fiat lifestyle!
Sean Culkin: This is for your bitcoiners.
Peter McCormack: Let's do it, we can bring it in now, if they stuck around.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, so it's like, I think, to have a life of wellness, there is a proof-of-work lifestyle that's needed, and I can go back to proof of work.
Peter McCormack: I've got proof of eating!
Sean Culkin: Proof of ribs!
Peter McCormack: Proof of dinner!
Sean Culkin: I mean, yeah, I think about when I was discussing to go from high school to college, from college to pro, there is a proof of work that's needed to get there, there's no free lunch. And I think for me, at some point professionally, it was a job, and I'm also with the boys. I couldn't believe this was my occupation. I'm just out here training, being my best. I'm still a super-hard worker. I have goals, I want to do it, to be the best.
But it's different when you're just doing it because this is what we do. We'll get fined if we don't come and run and do conditioning. It's like, I was at some point, I think, I didn't wake up and actively choose a proof-of-work lifestyle. It's like running with a bunch of friends; and then when that little voice in your head says, "I'm only going to go about two miles, not go three", and it's real easy to be just be, "Yeah, I'll get up up tomorrow". That's a fiat lifestyle, when you're with your friends, you don't really choose to go on. But that empowering moment to be like, "No, hell no, I'm going three miles, because I said I was doing three miles. Shut up, dude".
David Goggins talks about it, the inner bitch, "Don't nap off, dude". That proof-of-work lifestyle yields wellness, and I think there's just work required, there's deliberate habits that are needed, there are habits that have to be formed, and you have to prioritise your physical wellbeing, your spiritual, emotional, social and intellectual wellbeing. That's when I realised, just on this journey, because when I got released, I wasn't doing it, I was living the fiat lifestyle and like I said, my mental health deteriorated and I got to such a bad place. How did I get here, man?
Don't hit snooze. Don't do it, don't hit snooze, bro, make your bed, be outside for a walk when the sun rises, work out every day, see the sun set, meditate, or have some type of practice or ritual that allows a sense of stillness and a clear mind and be spiritually grounded, whatever that means to you individually. It's not rocket science, there's nothing novel there, but why is it so hard; why do people not do it?
Peter McCormack: Did Bitcoin give you that anchoring, because I know from talking to a bunch of people in Bitcoin, whether it's interviews or just hanging out with friends, there is that discovering Bitcoin and understanding money? But then, there's that second layer of discovering yourself, which becomes aligned and anchored to Bitcoin in terms of time preference and proof of work, which I know half of my life, I've anchored to it and I've done it, and half of my life I've completely fucking failed. But was that an anchoring, or was it coincidence?
Sean Culkin: I was so lost at one point that I don't even think I was thinking about it like that. It took me to get to a place of wellness and clarity to be like, "Holy shit, I see it". It was short, that dark period, so there was a reason why I resonated with Bitcoin and it's made me evaluate friendships at relationships differently, and just what I want to do with my time, why am I doing what I'm doing. I think that does that for everyone bitcoiner that really grasps and understands it. You can't fake the truth.
There are universal truths that will arise, and I try to seek that every day. And I think that also goes in parallel with Bitcoin. But now, looking back, you definitely see it as the Bitcoin lifestyle and how it's needed just to cultivate that sense of wellness, for sure.
Peter McCormack: So, what's going to happen now, dude?
Sean Culkin: I'm trying to tell my story and be so transparent and authentic to only me. I've discovered what has helped me to being well, and I just want to stay true to that and hope that I can present a product and a platform that can help others have that, and attainable, to fit in that with no easy lifestyle. Especially in this information age, there's so much information being dispersed, and really important information.
There's a whole revolution going on, we're shifting to a digital economy. How are you supposed to, whether it be as an entrepreneur, 8.00am to 5.00pm, you have kids, how are you supposed to prioritise and do those things that make you well, which I think is working out, meditating, reading books, listening to these podcasts and doing all those things. For me, if I do that, it takes four hours, it takes me four hours. That's not optimal of my time.
I think about my brother, and he has the 8.00am to 5.00pm, beautiful family, wants to show up as a father to them, and it's so hard for him to incorporate that workout, that meditation, that reading. So, how can I create a product that can get him from zero to one and me, four hours to one, and that's what I'm excited about. And I'm going to pay people in Bitcoin to do it, and that's all I'm going to tell you right now, that's it, man!
Peter McCormack: That's it?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, dude!
Peter McCormack: I'm going to probe in a bit! Okay, can I be a test case?
Sean Culkin: Absolutely.
Peter McCormack: Can I lose 20 pounds by Bitcoin 2020, that's 10 weeks?
Sean Culkin: How many pounds?
Peter McCormack: 20. 15?
Sean Culkin: 12?
Peter McCormack: 12?
Sean Culkin: Maybe 12.
Peter McCormack: Can I grow seven inches?
Sean Culkin: That I cannot do.
Peter McCormack: For fuck's sake!
Sean Culkin: Yeah, I'm sorry, man, sorry.
Peter McCormack: That's the bullshit part! I struggle with my weight, I always have. The only time I've ever got in shape was when I didn't work and I was vegan and I was running every day. Now, I'm travelling, running a football team, making the podcast, I just can't. I haven't got my mindset, or I haven't got the discipline in place to have the diet. I can do it. I do it some days, right. I'll be back in the UK. Monday, great; Tuesday, I'm great; Thursday, I'm great. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I fucking smash --
Sean Culkin: Well, you lost the momentum. What did we say in the beginning of this pod, right, about the team momentum? You need that in your life.
Peter McCormack: I see that tub of Pringles, I have two, then I crush the whole fucking pack.
Sean Culkin: Don't do it, war of attrition, "I'll skip this one workout. A bag of Pringles, that's fine, I'm just going to do it". Don't do it.
Peter McCormack: Flip it, skip that one tub of Pringles.
Sean Culkin: Hey, I still do it too, right.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, but look at you.
Sean Culkin: I crushed I don't know how many ice cream sandwiches a couple of days ago.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, but you've got a 6,000-calorie base rate. Mine's like 2,000.
Sean Culkin: Well, yours is hard, because of your back too, because I think that I talk to people and I'm like, "Well, what's your regimen look like, what are you doing for physical activity? What are you doing calories-wise?" There's proof of work, right. I think, for me, I'm just experimenting. I've never done this, truly counting every calorie. I've got the Apple watch now, it tells me how many calories I expend, what am I trying to do, what are my goals? I'm trying to lose weight, make sure that I consume less than I burn.
Peter McCormack: For you though, what's the secret to all this, the discipline required?
Sean Culkin: Like I said, don't hit snooze. If you hit snooze, then when it says, later on, when you're trying to create a podcast, you're trying to research your guests, you're trying to listen to these books, make sure you're doing well, and then you want to speak to your kids, and it's like, "I've got to work out. No", it started when you hit snooze. You looked at the bed, you didn't make it; you've got to make your bed. I think earlier better, wake up earlier, go to bed earlier.
Peter McCormack: I don't have that --
Sean Culkin: No, just do it and then small wins, right, small, small wins. So when you do wake up right away, when you do make your bed, when you do go for a walk, celebrate those. Go get a 20-minute workout. I'm not saying you need to go and do a CrossFit and just snatch 300 pounds and do all these burpees left and right.
Peter McCormack: Walk up and down the beach.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, go walk up and down the beach and get some sunlight and watch your world shift, do a 180, 30 minutes.
Peter McCormack: Then celebrate.
Sean Culkin: Then celebrate after.
Peter McCormack: With a ton of Pringles!
Sean Culkin: Ton of Pringles and ice cream sandwiches, all of it! Not that, or moderation. Splurge, but just don't lose yourself and just wake up and just see this empty box. Just stack those wins every day, consistency, and watch that. It almost becomes a routine, it becomes a habit. Like I said, the proof of work to make it a habit, part of your lifestyle. Then you can't even imagine going back to not doing that. Like I said, it can be just walking, power walk, keep your heart rate at a certain level and just go for 30 minutes.
Peter McCormack: Is this a Bitcoin company that you're launching?
Sean Culkin: I like to think so. Why I'm so excited is because it's my story and it's literally the boxes that I know and my experiences. It is wellness and what's worked for me, and overlapping with Bitcoin. Dude, you know they say, "Make sure you have a job that doesn't feel like work, if you can"? I don't even think I had a plan to get there. And now, since I'm actually going to go through that phase of exploring entrepreneurship, I wake up at 6.00am and I go to bed at 9.00pm, and I feel like there's not an hour where at least 60% of that is somehow, "How can this apply to my business?" It doesn't feel like work, I couldn't be happier.
Peter McCormack: It's a fascinating journey, because we first connected because you were the guy going to take his salary in Bitcoin. Then the rug pull happened, you've been through this difficult period, and I know those dark times, I've been through it myself. And you're coming out the other end.
Sean Culkin: It's like an awakening, right, and it can happen fast. Because, like I said, when you start to make those changes… I'm talking to a buddy and he's going through a similar situation. I'm like, "Dude, set your timer on your phone, 30 minutes. Go outside, peak middle of the day, go for a run or a walk. Run and when you get tired, walk. Let that be the next step for you when you're lost and you don't trust". Because, when you're in those dark times, you almost don't trust closing your eyes and listening to those intrusive thoughts, and you don't know the plan. You can't plan anymore, you can't think, "Okay, this is what I want to build for my life. I want to think about next week and next month and this year and here's my five-year plan".
Are you kidding me? I'm going hour-by-hour, you know what I mean, because you're in survival mode and it's scary. But it's like, "Okay, at least, all right, I'm going to go outside and run", start there, "I'm going to drink some more water than I did yesterday", start there, "I don't know about this meditation thing, but I think I'm just going to close my eyes for two or three minutes, take a pause from life, be present".
How many people aren't present? It's so hard to be present and it's only getting harder. I think there's an inverse correlation between technology and advancement, and health and wellness, as a civilisation. All these notifications, all this stuff's going on, how do you just be here in the now?
Peter McCormack: You make a podcast, so you have to be!
Sean Culkin: Right, I guess so. You're really good at that, right. If not, you just stick to the script, right.
Peter McCormack: I got lucky.
Sean Culkin: It's like, you actually have to be here now, be an active listener and not have a preloaded answer. Again, this is nothing novel, why is it so hard to do? I don't know.
Peter McCormack: I think sometimes, it's routine. You had a routine with your job, that you had to turn up, you had to work out, the team's working out, you're training together. Then you lose that routine.
Sean Culkin: It was programmed for me, and then I was in the abyss and I wasn't doing it. And my wellness deteriorated.
Peter McCormack: At every level?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, every level. And it took, I mean, gosh, there was so much opportunity in those low spots, right. I think every man needs to be tested, and I've had a journey in playing professional sports. Man, I tore my Achilles back when I was looking to -- I was peak, I was starting for a couple of weeks.
Peter McCormack: You were about to score a touchdown!
Sean Culkin: I know, on the 2-yard line, brother!
Peter McCormack: On the fucking 2-yard line!
Sean Culkin: I'm just sitting there.
Peter McCormack: You've got to tell that, because you told me that the other night. Let's just set this. We were watching the game and I'm like, "So, did you --" I think I asked you first, "Do tight ends score touchdowns?" and then the next play, the tight end caught a play, and I was like, "Did you get a touchdown?" and then you told me this story.
Sean Culkin: Didn't have a professional touchdown, dude. I remember we had a timeout and the player came in and called the play, "I think we're running that pop pass". I'm like, "All right, down and distance where we're at". I'm like, "I'll get this, there's going to be a tuck", no doubt in my mind.
Peter McCormack: What line were you on?
Sean Culkin: We were probably on the 12-yard line maybe.
Peter McCormack: Oh, you were like, "This is on".
Sean Culkin: Yeah, it was a play action pass I knew, and I was more of a blocking tight end, right, so I knew that the secondary, the safety's going to suck and I'll show play action, show run. I was going to sell it on blocking initially, and then I toss the defender a go out. And that's exactly what happened, and it was just a little high, it was a little windy too, you know, Philip talked about it and it was just a little awkward, caught it, and then as soon as I came down, toe/heel, I felt like a baseball bat just hit the back of my calf.
Peter McCormack: You couldn't even role over the line.
Sean Culkin: Oh, it was a touchdown too, or a tuck down. So, I've had difficulties, in college I've had surgeries, injuries throughout sporadically that were hard, and that develops resiliency, for sure. I had another Achilles injury. No one even knows, because I didn't do it in a game, but after I had this surgery, three months later I flew back and had a pre-emptive surgery on my other Achilles. So, I didn't work for five months, and that was on the onset leading up to COVID. It was 22 January 2020, was the surgery date for my second one. It was tough, right, definitely felt gripped from that.
But there's something about being out of that ecosystem, out of that world that I've been in my whole life, being with athletes. When you're alone and really challenged, that's when I figured out who Sean is, what am I about. And for a while, I wasn't too happy. I looked in the mirror, man, I didn't like what I saw.
Peter McCormack: Well, you're hanging out with degenerates like me and American HODL!
Sean Culkin: Yeah, right!
Peter McCormack: "Get some beers!"
Sean Culkin: Yeah, and it's all moderation, right. You can drink, I'm not saying you have to cut it off. I know some nutritionists would disagree, but I think again, it's all about there's balance in life. Because you only get one life, too; you just want to be so detailed like a robot and just, "Hey, but I'm fit and well", and it's like, "No, live, but just moderation". You've got to find what works for you. But when you aren't happy and satisfied with your current situation, you have to make changes, and you've got to be intentional, proactive, develop a plan and stick to it. It's really hard to do.
Peter McCormack: Have you separated yourself from that world and those players?
Sean Culkin: No, I talk to them. I would text with -- I've got really good friends that I've made, and that's why like I said, I have so much gratitude for the relationships and the opportunities. But it's hard, because they're playing, you know what I mean, and they get an off day. I remember getting lunch with Austin Ekeler on his bye week, that was cool. Hunter Henry's a good friend of mine, Ben Finney, Isaac Rochell, talk to those guys often, but they've got their own thing going on.
I know that life. On an off day, you just -- I had three meals, I did not leave the house, other than to get my massage, go to my chiropractor, get some PT in, hot tub, cool tub, come back in, sit on my bed, Netflix. That's your one-off day, I cherished that, man. I didn't want to be texting and calling friends.
Peter McCormack: Well, listen, you've got this whole group of new friends anyway in the Bitcoin world.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, I know, are you kidding? I have so much appreciation from the people I've met and how they've been there for me and, dude, Rich Katz.
Peter McCormack: Rich Katz, man!
Sean Culkin: He's here now. There's a reason for that, because he's been such a great friend. I am beyond just grateful for the friendship that was cultivated. And that happened because of Bitcoin, it happened because we were at Miami, at your event, so I met him, we just kind of maintain. He's like, "Hey, I'm in LA". Man, he's one of my closest friends. That would never have happened, so I've got Bitcoin friends, and the list goes on, there's other people too and that's been really cool, really unique.
Peter McCormack: How much a part of your life do you think that's going to be now ongoing?
Sean Culkin: What, like Bitcoin?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, do you think it's integral to this thing you're doing?
Sean Culkin: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: I want to dig into it, man.
Sean Culkin: When we launch it, I'll come back and we'll go through it. But think about it, yeah, I want to incentivise -- you earn Bitcoin by living a life of wellness, to do the right things, you can earn Bitcoin.
Peter McCormack: So, it's like a Bitcoin cashback?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, except you're not getting fiat. And it's only going to be a couple of dollars.
Peter McCormack: You're like mining Bitcoin by doing something. I know you don't want to talk about this, but I'm just seeing the analogy.
Sean Culkin: No, trust me, how I see it going, it's a huge, audacious goal, first off. I'm just ready for that challenge.
Peter McCormack: But it's like human mining of Bitcoin. I can get an ASIC and I can mine Bitcoin, and that's proof of work. I'm expending energy and I'm getting Bitcoin. But I know you don't want to talk about it, so just tell me to shut the fuck up, but it's like, okay, so if I put the work in, you're going to pay me in Bitcoin. I'm expending energy to get Bitcoin.
Sean Culkin: It's all about energy, right, first off.
Peter McCormack: So, I'm personally mining Bitcoin by doing some shit with my life?
Sean Culkin: Yeah. But I think Bitcoin's so important, so the fact that I can overlap the two, again, it's just my story. Man, this could be something that you get, I don't know, a couple of million of revenue after expenses. I walk away with just a stable living to cover expenses. Sweet, it's my passion. I couldn't imagine doing anything else. Maybe this scales to be something huge? Sweet. It's not about that.
I have an idea, this helped me, how can I deliver it in digestible ways to people that I hope they also believe strongly to be a value for them? That makes me feel like I have purpose and bringing value to this world in a good way. It's good for Bitcoin, it's good for people's lives. That excites me. Not, "Man, Sean Culkin, he played instead of four years, he got five, six, seven", who knows? I couldn't even tell you who won the Superbowl two years ago. I couldn't tell you who the game we went to yesterday was playing, like the players! It's all small, it's not lasting. This excites me.
Peter McCormack: What's it been like for you in this Bitcoin world as well; how have you adapted to it? Because, it's fairly new to you, relatively, and it's probably very different from the world you were used to with football. How have you adapted to it; how have you adapted to what there is to learn, the rabbit hole to go down?
Sean Culkin: It's a huge rabbit hole.
Peter McCormack: How have you adapted to that? How have you adapted to fluctuations in price and everything that comes along with it?
Sean Culkin: Fluctuations are cool. I said that back when I was still going after my announcement. I went on quite a few podcasts talking about it as it started to plummet the first time. The volatility that I've had in football, "Am I getting cut next week?" They just brought in a workout. I'm getting paid week-to-week. I call my mum 1.00pm PST, 1.01pm, "Hey, man, the cheque's going to cash for the week. We'll hold on to next week and I'll call you then".
That life is so custom and normal, and it's fun, it's opportunity, it's competition in football, it's great, it brings out the best in me. If you have income coming through, you're grateful for it then, right. It takes conviction to go down that rabbit hole to build the confidence to understand it to get there. But that wasn't an issue. It's hard to explain it to people who aren't bitcoiners when it is volatile.
Then, when I made that announcement, man, I didn't know it was going to go that big! My one tweet, it had 6.8 million impressions, it was on all these things! And then when I got here, it just kept going. And then it started going down, so then everyone was like, "He's an idiot, they've put his salary in Bitcoin", the amount of tweets that would call me like, "Dumbass, you're going to be broke, lost all his NFL money".
All right, well, economics and finance, that was initially going to be my life. I was ready, before NFL, to go to Wall Street. I said this all in the first episode. So, explaining it to other people can be hard. Twitter can be toxic!
Peter McCormack: Fuck yeah, man!
Sean Culkin: Twitter can be toxic. I actually went off the grid, yeah, I've been off the grid. I'm excited to get back out there. I'll be announcing soon.
Peter McCormack: It's still toxic!
Sean Culkin: I know. I lurk, I'm still there, I still login, I still see what's going on, I see the arguments. Your name pops up quite a bit, I love it!
Peter McCormack: I think less so these days. I've got it twice now. So, I've not only got the bitcoiners fucking shouting at me, I've got opposition football people shouting at me. Today, it was brutal, because we were losing 4-1 at half-time, and this guy who plays or is a steward at the club next door hates us. He just put laughing emojis. I was saying to Danny, I was like, "What do I do? Do I tell him to fuck off; do I block him; what do I do?" Danny's like, "Just ignore him, Pete".
Sean Culkin: Just ignore it, mute. I've had to do that. So, the toxicity is more entertainment. It doesn't really impact me.
Peter McCormack: It's not real life.
Sean Culkin: Well, at Missouri, man, after the game, you don't play well and you lose, you go on Twitter and people are just like, "You're terrible, you don't belong here, get out of here, lose your scholarship!"
Peter McCormack: "You suck!"
Sean Culkin: You make a good play the next week, you win, the same people, "We love you, thank you so much for coming, Mizzou mate!" That's not anything bad on Mizzou, that's just the game in college athletics especially, and NFL.
Peter McCormack: I still don't think that's good for mental health.
Sean Culkin: No, definitely not, because we have a negative cognitive bias as humans. We can get 1,000 replies and 800 be super positive. We don't even think twice about those. That 200.
Peter McCormack: It can be the one.
Sean Culkin: The one, sorry, yeah, I'm thinking ratios. It can be a few, that's all, and then just you ruminate, you're sitting with it, and then before you know it, you're believing it and then you're questioning it. You're like, "Hold on, take a step back". It's about being present, right, aware that I'm aware, I don't have to be these thoughts that are coming out. These guys don't know my story, they don't know anything that's going on. Why am I going to put value on their input? That's just BS, let it come and go. It's hard to do.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, it is, although you can use it to drive yourself forward as well. It's like, "Okay, I'll prove you motherfuckers wrong!"
Sean Culkin: Oh, sure, it's a sense of success. What is it, "The best revenge is massive success", that quote, right. You can definitely use it to chip on your shoulder. Yeah, I've had that, not necessarily from tweets. I tried to detach and at college, I always deleted the app, the icon. Same with pro ball, just finding what makes you tick and to prove them wrong. That chip on your shoulder, I had that going at Mizzou, I had that, I was undrafted. That's a big part of it too, so you've got to do that. You're going through new territories, right, you've got to learn.
Peter McCormack: It's rough!
Sean Culkin: How much fun are you having though so far? It's probably a lot of fun.
Peter McCormack: I feel just the most blessed, lucky person in the world, getting to live the life I want to live. I get to hang out with my buddy, Sean Culkin, with his beautiful view and this is work.
Sean Culkin: Unreal.
Peter McCormack: Then I get to work on a football team for my local town and try and do something for the people of Bedford. But this football team's gripped me like nothing's gripped me in my life. I'm obsessing over it. I go to bed thinking about it, I wake up thinking about it. It's going to be a really fascinating test of myself as well, my ability to deal with failure and my ability to deal with more trolls. I've put my whole reputation on the line with this.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, seriously.
Peter McCormack: I've gone out bold and said, "This is what we're going to do". And then you go out some weeks, you lose, you get shit on. But I wouldn't change it.
Sean Culkin: Right, and the leadership role too. I mean, obviously you're a father, but now the guys are looking up to you to lead by example.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, it's a different leadership role as well, because you can tell off your kids. I can't discipline these people, I have to keep them motivated. But I have to not overstep the mark of what is owner versus there's a manager whose job it is to do certain things.
Sean Culkin: Sure, yeah.
Peter McCormack: But I've essentially had a fairly safe podcast career, record 30 interviews, get some good people in. I'm fortunate enough to get to talk to the most amazing people and I just throw some questions at them and they answer them, and people seem to like it. But now I'm like, whole reputation, here we go, this is what we're going to do, we're going to get the team in the football league, and I've convinced people to sponsor it and I'm telling people to buy jerseys.
If it fails, it all falls on me; everyone's going to look at me and go, "You didn't fucking do it", and I don't know what that means. I mean, Sean, you'll understand this, you've got to take some risks, you've got to take some fucking risks.
Sean Culkin: Yeah, 100%, dude. Anything worth pursuing in life, you can't just half-ass it, right, and you've got to take those calculated risks and it's something that you believe in. And if it doesn't happen that way, you learn from it, it's okay, you knew that you did everything possible and kind of detach from the outcome. But when it comes to jump, when it's time to jump, you jump.
Man, I mean there's risk in me wanting to get paid. I knew there was assumed risk and how I would be perceived, and the eyes and everything on me. And now, going through entrepreneurship, it would be real easy to take the easy route and take a job and have a salary. But when you see something and believe in something so much, that's where you want to be; you want to be in a position to pursue those goals, to pursue those interests and things that you're so passionate about and able to do, and then share with others. That's the beauty of entrepreneurship, and there's a huge amount of risk.
If it works, people get paid out of it, that's how capital allocation works. But if it fails, then it fails.
Peter McCormack: So, when do we find out the details; how long have we got to wait?
Sean Culkin: It's happening fast. I mean, the last few months, it's really cool to see the scale, and now I'm really embracing too the founder position. It's like, "I'm building something from the ground level zero, what do I want that culture to be like? What other people do I want to work with me? What do we want to be about internally, externally?" It's fun, it's like all these different buckets, it's like how to build a start-up, my idea, just how to be a founder and leader and be stoic and it's like I'm constantly learning. There's so much to learn and I just have this drive to just eat it all up and be my best self and have fun.
Peter McCormack: Are we talking weeks, are we talking months?!
Sean Culkin: Oh, man! I mean, how I see it really playing out long term, to go there, to go out in tiers for years. This is going to be a project, a big, big project. What I'm trying to create is going to take a lot. There's going to be a lot of proof of work needed. But yeah, maybe in months, we'll definitely be able to have something that's more tangible and be able to discuss with you and it will be fun.
Peter McCormack: Get it out there, let people know. Well listen, man, I'm super-proud of you and also really just happy to call you a friend. You've become someone I've got to know over these last few months. I know if I reach out to you and I'm like, "I'm here, let's hang out", you're like, "Let's fucking go!" And we've also got Rich Katz over there who has an endless supply of sports tickets for us to go to any event we want!
Sean Culkin: We have had some fun, yes, Rich has definitely hooked it up.
Peter McCormack: We'll get him to a Bedford game at some point!
Sean Culkin: I can't wait. We definitely have to plan that, we talked about that. I'm coming.
Peter McCormack: Well, if we get in the playoffs, I'm going to get you in, persuade Mr Katz to come. But listen, I'm super-proud of you doing this. I know it's a big thing, I know what you've been wrestling with. I can't imagine what it's like to go through that. I envy you for having lived that life where you get to go on a pitch and feel that, but I don't envy you going through the process of realising there's something else, but you seem to have a grip of it.
Sean Culkin: No, and I've just figured out life's great. I've got to stick to my plan, my routine and maintain. It's not like -- proof of work is continuous, you know.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I'm going to be up tomorrow morning walking down that beach maybe saying, "Am I going to get in that water?"
Sean Culkin: So I've been every morning, In Rich's spot, wake up, there's water there, up to the chest, eight minutes, just sitting there, man.
Peter McCormack: What, in the sea?
Sean Culkin: Oh, yeah.
Peter McCormack: You know there's sharks out there?
Sean Culkin: Oh, yeah, they're fine.
Peter McCormack: You could probably fucking fight them, you'd probably eat the shark.
Sean Culkin: It's fun.
Peter McCormack: So listen, if people want to keep an eye on this, they want to find out what you're doing, when you're announcing, where can they go?
Sean Culkin: At my social, @culkin22 on Twitter, @culk80 on Instagram. That's pretty much where I will be active. I have not been, I've been off the grid for months. So, I'm excited to be a little bit more transparent with what's going on, live updates and everything, and I'll be able to just share and be open about this whole process and journey and what I'm learning too, and just building something.
It's not like I'm this master of building companies. No, I've never done this before, I've played football my whole life. I've always had a learning mentality, my off-seasons I've always learned. I was working 30 hours a week while playing at Mizzou, been working on my MBA the last couple of off-seasons at the Kelley School, Indiana, and it's new waters for me.
Peter McCormack: Where did you wear a 22?
Sean Culkin: That was my number growing up in basketball. Yeah, Culkin 22.
Peter McCormack: So, that's your basketball number, but 80's your football jersey?
Sean Culkin: Yeah, man.
Peter McCormack: Interesting. Have you got it tattooed anywhere?
Sean Culkin: Got no tats.
Peter McCormack: Let's take you and get you one.
Sean Culkin: Let's do it right now!
Peter McCormack: Right now, let's get a drunk one!
Sean Culkin: We'll do it!
Peter McCormack: We'll get you an 80.
Sean Culkin: It will be awesome.
Peter McCormack: Well listen, mate, go crush it. You know you need anything from me, you just reach out. I got you and if I can help you with this new venture in any way, promote it, support you. If you can help me grow seven inches. Height! That will be awesome.
Sean Culkin: Let's stick with 12 pounds. We'll going to get there, right, by the conference. And, man, I appreciate your friendship again too, it's been really great to get to know each other the last couple of months and super-grateful.
Peter McCormack: Well, any time, man. And, we've said his name a few times, but big shoutout to Rich Katz over there, good mutual friend of both of ours.
Sean Culkin: Yes, sir.
Peter McCormack: Cool, man, well good luck, stay in touch and let me know what happens and, yeah, we'll get you back on the show and we'll talk about it.
Sean Culkin: Let's do it.
Peter McCormack: All right, bro.
Sean Culkin: Thanks, Peter.
