WBD439 Audio Transcription
Footballer Turned Bitcoiner with Kieran Gibbs
Interview date: Sunday 19th December
Note: the following is a transcription of my interview with Kieran Gibbs. I have reviewed the transcription but if you find any mistakes, please feel free to email me. You can listen to the original recording here.
In this interview, I talk to Kieran Gibbs, and we discuss his journey down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, his decision to take his paycheque in Bitcoin, as well as his playing career and move to the MLS.
“You quickly learn that [bitcoin] is an extremely robust system that is designed to only go up.”
— Kieran Gibbs
Interview Transcription
Peter McCormack: Kieran, how are you doing, man?
Kieran Gibbs: Hey, buddy.
Peter McCormack: Thanks for coming on.
Kieran Gibbs: Thanks for having me.
Peter McCormack: You're our first footballer.
Kieran Gibbs: No way?
Peter McCormack: First proper footballer.
Kieran Gibbs: Okay, what's a non-proper footballer.
Peter McCormack: So, we've had Russ Okung and we've had Sean Culkin.
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, I love Russ, yeah.
Peter McCormack: American egg ball. So, you're the first proper footballer. So, look, great to have you on, man, really chuffed to have this. My brother's a Gooner, so he'll be proud of this. But we were talking this morning, me and Danny, because is this your first time in Miami?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, first time.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, we've been here a few days, and we can't understand why you left Birmingham!
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, it was a strange one, because I actually didn't realise -- it came around quite quick in the end, moving here from England, and I basically just got to a point where the pandemic hit and I just felt like I needed something completely new and different to keep me -- a good challenge that would excite me. It's a new club, great owners and it's a great city.
So, I'm happy, I'm really settled here now, it took me a while. I literally landed with two suitcases, and had to kind of just start from scratch. And I just came on my own, because it was just too much of a nightmare with COVID. But no, found my feet, and I'm happy, and thanks for having me on, by the way, because I've watched a lot of your podcasts. You're going to have to go easy on me, because I'm not a blockchain expert, but I try.
Peter McCormack: We'll go easy. Well, there's a bunch of stuff I want to talk about. I mean, I want to talk about football, I love football. I just told you I bought a club, and I'm a Liverpool fan, Danny's United, I don't know what club Jeremy supports. Chelsea. He supports Richmond FC! So, I want to talk about football with you, but I want to talk about Bitcoin as well; talk about a bunch of stuff. But definitely want to talk about football, because we don't have the chance with this. We're massive football fans, and most of the people we talk to are nerds or economists and we just talk about Bitcoin all the time, but it would be good to talk about a bit of football.
I want to know a bit about your career, man. You play for England, you play for Arsenal, that's not something we're ever going to get to experience ourselves, so it's good to learn a bit about this. So, tell us about Arsenal; tell us about coming through and finally getting to the first team. I know you've probably answered all these questions before in the past, but it's good for us to hear.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. I mean, the thing was, I didn't really know any different, because I was there since I was 14. I left Wimbledon when they went into administration and they became MK Dons, so I was at Wimbledon first.
Peter McCormack: Oh, really?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: Okay.
Kieran Gibbs: And then, when they moved to Milton Keynes, it was just too much travel for my parents, and so we needed to think about what else we could do. And for some reason, Wimbledon used to play Arsenal quite a lot of the time. There wasn't really a league; we were 12 years old, so it wasn't -- I think there's probably a lot more to it now. But back then, you just played teams that were available, I think. So, yeah, we played against them quite a bit.
Then, I moved there at 14 with my brother. I was there for two years and then I signed a scholarship at 16. And to be honest, I would say that I was one of those that if you lined up the whole team, most of them would have signed a one-year scholarship and then a two-year pro; whereas me, I barely got a scholarship. I was quite small, I was one of the ones that you probably wouldn't have tipped to have played for the first team, because our age group was amazing, they were so good.
Peter McCormack: Who else was in that group?
Kieran Gibbs: So you had Jay Simpson, Mark Randall, Gavin Hoyte, Paul Rodgers, a lot of just young, athletic boys that were street footballers, most of them from North London. So, it was actually quite strange. And then, when I signed the scholarship, sometimes you start to train with the first team if you get lucky, if there's a few injuries, and it kind of went from there really. And I was actually more of a midfielder back then.
Then, there was a game against Sheffield United, my debut, when I was 17, and we needed cover at left-back, so I filled in. Then that was it really, it went from there. The manager said that he wanted me to learn my trade from there, so that's where it began for me.
Peter McCormack: Was that a League or a Cup game?
Kieran Gibbs: That was a Cup game.
Peter McCormack: And did you start, or were you on the bench as cover?
Kieran Gibbs: No, I started.
Peter McCormack: You started, for the first time, straight in the team.
Kieran Gibbs: I don't know if I would have been on the bench before that, I can't remember now. I mean, we're going back 15 years.
Peter McCormack: Was that Highbury, or had they moved to Emirates then?
Kieran Gibbs: No, it was at Emirates, but it was at Sheffield, it was away.
Peter McCormack: Oh, it was away?
Kieran Gibbs: It was away, yeah.
Peter McCormack: So, what's that like, the first time in the dressing room before a game?
Kieran Gibbs: It's surreal. Nothing can really prepare you for it, to be honest, no matter how much mental work; you've just got to go through it. And thankfully, we won 3-0. I mean, the team was world class.
Peter McCormack: Who was in the team at that point?
Kieran Gibbs: I mean, you had Alex Song, Diaby.
Danny Knowles: Was Fabregas there?
Kieran Gibbs: Fabregas was there. I don't know if he was playing that game, but it was that kind of era.
Peter McCormack: Did you get to play with Henry, because it feels like when we were researching, that you just missed him, but he did come back?
Kieran Gibbs: He came back. I think I might have been out with a sports hernia, which was devastating. I was ruled out for a couple of months, so I missed the chance to actually be on a pitch with him. But I trained with him.
Peter McCormack: I remember that Leeds game where he scored.
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, yeah, incredible.
Peter McCormack: Yeah. So, what was it like to play for Wenger, what was he like?
Kieran Gibbs: Again, for me, I didn't have another manager until I was 27.
Peter McCormack: Wow!
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. So, again, I didn't really know any different. I had England managers, but you're not with them long enough to gauge how good they are as a club manager.
Danny Knowles: Who was that with England; was it Capello?
Kieran Gibbs: First was with Capello, and then Hodgson and Gareth. So, yeah, I didn't really know any different. It was only when I left; in fact, I went on loan to Norwich for three months when I was 18, and that was under Glenn Roeder, Rest in Peace actually, Glenn Roeder, a great man. So, yeah, I didn't really get enough experience of different managers to know just how good he was. But at the same time, it's still Arsène Wenger, right; some things you just can't explain!
But he had an amazing way of giving you confidence without screaming from the rooftops. He was more philosophical, the way he spoke about the game, and I think that's what won him a lot of the players for so many years.
Peter McCormack: He's one of those managers a lot of other people liked. A lot of other people respected him as a manger. Like me, as a Liverpool fan, I mean my brother's an Arsenal fan, so I went for years watching Arsenal win against Liverpool and had to suffer a lot of abuse from my brother. But he's a manager that everyone respects, probably unless you're a Spurs fan.
Kieran Gibbs: I think it's just his humility, the way he carried himself. He's a gentleman, never really looked to unstable the team, always stayed the shit. When there was trouble in the camp and we'd lost a few on the bounce, he always had a way of getting the team rallied up and coming back from hardship, which was another big characteristic of his.
Peter McCormack: And when you came through, did the other players look after you, did they give you a bit of shit; what's it like?
Kieran Gibbs: Some do and some don't.
Danny Knowles: Do you have to sing a song?
Kieran Gibbs: Actually, no, but I did when I went to West Brom, and I actually did when I had to come here.
Danny Knowles: What's your song?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, what did you sing?
Kieran Gibbs: Michael Jackson, The Way you Make me Feel!
Danny Knowles: Nice!
Peter McCormack: What, both times?
Kieran Gibbs: Both times. It's my go-to.
Peter McCormack: You scored a couple of goals for Arsenal, even though you're left-back. What was that like; what's it like putting it in the net?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, there's no better feeling. You can tell why strikers are strikers. There isn't a better feeling. Didn't get as many as I liked, but I got one against the rivals, which will always be --
Peter McCormack: You got one against Spurs?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: What was the score, do you remember?
Kieran Gibbs: 1-1.
Peter McCormack: Equaliser, or the first?
Kieran Gibbs: Equaliser.
Peter McCormack: Was that your first goal?
Kieran Gibbs: First ever goal?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, for the Arsenal?
Kieran Gibbs: No. My first ever goal was against, oh my God, that's so bad; I think it was against Shrewsbury. It might have been against Shrewsbury in the Cup when I was 18.
Peter McCormack: Let's talk about the Tottenham one, then. So you put the ball in the back of the net, you pulled it back level, you must have gone mental?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, my best friend was there actually, he was the only one that could come to that game, for some reason, and he's a Spurs fan. It was at the Emirates and he wasn't best pleased, but it was good for the Arsenal.
Peter McCormack: I fucking hate Spurs. I do, and I'm not even an Arsenal fan. Four of my best mates from school are all Spurs fans, and I've had 30 years of them telling me how they're a great club, constantly in my ear. I fucking hate them.
Kieran Gibbs: I mean, they're not doing the best at the moment, so you're probably happy.
Peter McCormack: They're cursed, they never win. Is it like that in the team with Spurs, does everyone just end up hating them?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah! I think it just filters through from the fans straight through the players. That's one of those games where no other game matters really in the season, especially if you do the double over them; the fans will forgive you for pretty much 90% of the other games.
Peter McCormack: So, I've been to a couple of them at White Hart Lane, or Three Point Lane! I went to the 5-4, I don't know if you remember that one; and I went to the 2-2, I think you won the League at the ground, and they were celebrating on the pitch and the fans were going mental. Crazy games.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, White Hart Lane was electric. I used to enjoy those ones.
Peter McCormack: I always felt it was a good stadium, just great atmosphere they managed to pull in there, no matter how much stick I give them. Was the United rivalry still going when you played?
Kieran Gibbs: It wasn't as bad as it was, but it's still a massive game. I mean, Liverpool United, you two head-to-head --
Danny Knowles: We've never been to one of them together.
Peter McCormack: No, we haven't. We're always kicking your ass at the moment anyway, I wouldn't worry about that, mate.
Danny Knowles: That's true!
Peter McCormack: So, who was the best player you played against, like did anyone stand out?
Kieran Gibbs: Eden Hazard. I mean, there's a lot of work that you can try and put in to stop him, but I mean his form at Chelsea was just frightening, it was frightening.
Danny Knowles: You'd have played against Ronaldo thought, right?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, but I just found that Eden, especially when he was there, he was just so at the top of his game. He was unplayable; for me, he was unplayable. So, yeah, I'd probably say Eden.
Peter McCormack: And, what was it like playing for England, that first call-up?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, proper highlight, one of the highlights of my career, for sure. Again, nothing can really prepare you for it, and that was at a time when there weren't really that many young players in the time. So, it was as the older generation were --
Peter McCormack: Gerrard, Lampard?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. So, I watched them, growing up, in England tournaments, just like you guys would have. So, daunting, but loved it, absolutely loved it, and made my debut at Wembley, home to Hungary, came on the second half.
Peter McCormack: What was that, like a 4-0 or something?
Kieran Gibbs: I think it might have been 2-1.
Peter McCormack: I don't remember that. I went to the final, the Euro.
Kieran Gibbs: Did you? I was here, but London looked like The Purge. It looked like the end of London.
Peter McCormack: I went down with my son to the game. We'd gone to the Denmark and the Germany game, which were great. We got down to Wembley on the game and there must have been 100,000 people there who weren't going to the game, dancing, singing, throwing shit everywhere. Everyone was drunk, it was wild.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, I remember seeing videos and thinking -- it was actually gutting to be here during that, just because actually, I'm good friends with Zat Knight, and Zat Knight flew over from -- he lives in LA.
Peter McCormack: Didn't he play for Fulham?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, Zat Knight played for Fulham, Villa.
Peter McCormack: Was he centre-back?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, centre-half, yeah. A good friend of mine, and he came over, so we just found a bar in a Sports Bar in Miami somewhere to go and watch it. But that's one thing that's good here is the Sports Bars to go in to watch sports. You just don't have that. There's just such a huge market in London for that. I don't understand why it hasn't, do you think?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, look, I'm here all the time, and especially when I'm sitting on my own. I'll just find out when there's -- even if there isn't football on, but if there's football on, I'll go to a bar and watch it. But I'll go and watch American Football, I'll go and watch Baseball. I'll just sit there in front of the 20 screens, get some chicken wings, and just sit and watch it. They've nailed it, they've nailed the service, they've nailed the atmosphere. But I think what they have, there's always something on, always.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, but I just don't understand why they haven't done that in the UK, the sport bar culture. It could be a good thing.
Peter McCormack: I think sports is just a different culture here.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. And also, they probably don't just the English drinking all day watching sports.
Peter McCormack: Rip the TVs off the wall! So, what's it like coming over here and playing here? We were talking about it earlier, because these teams seem to be a mix of superstars and local Americans, so it's quite a range.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, that's exactly right, I was just going to say that. So, you get some real, high-quality players in the League. When I first joined, I was like, "Well, he could play in Europe, so could he", and I did that every game. And it's very physical, because the Americans do their fitness and everything double as much as they probably do -- I would say it's further ahead than the UK, so everyone's fit and strong and fast. So, it's very physical.
Then you get two or three dangerous players in each team. So, I think it's a little bit more end-to-end, in terms of tactically. It's a bit, I wouldn't say "headless chicken" either. I think the fans here want entertainment. America's about entertaining, so it's who can entertain the fans the most. So, it's a little bit less tactical, but not too much, and I've been impressed by the standard since I've been here.
Peter McCormack: What's the fan support here? I haven't been to a Miami game. I went to a, who did I go and see recently? Tennessee, I went to Nashville, and they were in the football stadium, and there were probably 10,000 people in there, so they were quite spread out. But within the fans behind the goal, the organisation of the fans, they had these two guys at the front who were orchestrating the band. It was really good. We were talking about it, I was really impressed by that, but the crowd wasn't huge. Are you finding it is growing? What's it like here in Miami?
Kieran Gibbs: Well, the stadium gets full. A lot of games I've played since I've been here, the stadium's been full. But obviously, you get some stadiums where it's like 70,000 people, a 70,000-seater stadium. You go to Atlanta, it's one of the best stadiums I've ever played in; it's incredible.
Peter McCormack: And it's full?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. It wasn't full when we were there, because it was a mid-week game, and I think the season's just been, with COVID and everything… But apparently, people were saying it does get full in previous seasons. And there's other stadiums as well that are really cool. Where else did I enjoy? Portland.
Peter McCormack: They're a bit wild up in Portland?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: I think they get the whole, having a group of fans who are a bit rowdy, bit of atmosphere.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, you get some good atmospheres here, for sure. So, yeah, I think it's definitely growing here. There's a few things probably that the League will have to do to make it become even bigger. I think salary cap's going to be an important part.
Peter McCormack: Because that's in place, right?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, it is. So, you can have, I don't know, two or three players that are exempt from salary cap, and then the rest of the team do.
Danny Knowles: So, why do they have the cap?
Kieran Gibbs: I'm not sure. I don't know if they have it in basketball or NFL as well, but that's probably going to be -- because then, South Americans or Americans, if they get their opportunity to go to Europe, they're going to choose that.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, they're going to take it. So, what are the three exempts in your team? There's you…?
Kieran Gibbs: No, I'm not a DP.
Peter McCormack: You're not?
Kieran Gibbs: No, I'm not a DP, just a normal guy, Peter!
Peter McCormack: Normal guy, man!
Danny Knowles: Who is it then, Higuain?
Kieran Gibbs: Higuain, Blaise and Pizarro.
Peter McCormack: You've got a decent team?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. We actually had a phase, when I first joined, we were unbeaten in 12 on the bounce and we started to pick up a lot of momentum. Then we lost a few players through injury and stuff, but I saw some good signs from the team, I was really impressed. But prior to that, they hadn't won for like 8 games, or they'd lost 7 or 8 on the bounce. I was trying to follow it as much as I could, but was in the process of just moving over here, so I was so busy, I wasn't being able to watch any of the games and stuff.
But when I came, it was quite flat, and then we just went on this run and we gave ourselves a real chance to get into the playoffs, but we just feel short at the end, which was a shame, because when you start to get that little feeling of the team's starting to click and you're having an impact, there's no better feeling than that. So, yeah, it was a shame we fell short in the end, but I've really enjoyed it since I've been here.
Peter McCormack: Did you have to adjust your game at all, and can you take the piss a bit, because they're yanks and they're not as good?!
Kieran Gibbs: No, you can't, that's the thing; you actually can't. Not that I thought you could. When you step on a pitch, it doesn't matter what league you're playing in or where you are, as a professional you just can't -- it's just not in you, or it's not in me anyway, to do that.
Peter McCormack: Not even a little bit?!
Kieran Gibbs: Maybe a little bit!
Peter McCormack: A little bit! I'm going to play for Bedford, mate.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, well, you've bought Bedford, right?
Peter McCormack: Pretty much. In the process.
Kieran Gibbs: Okay, perfect. Are you going to play all of your players in Bitcoin?
Peter McCormack: Do you know what the funny thing is, at the moment, because of the level they're in, they don't actually -- no one's being paid at the moment. But we're about to sign five players to try and ensure we can get promoted this season, so we're going to get five guys, we're going to get a spine, and I've got to pay them like £50 to £100 a game each.
But next year, it will be £200 to £300, and the year after it's £400 to £500, and it goes up pretty quick. And by the time you hit the Conference, it's probably £1 million a year salary.
Kieran Gibbs: Wow, interesting. Are you excited?
Peter McCormack: I am. We need a left-back.
Kieran Gibbs: Do you?
Peter McCormack: Do you want to come down to Bedford?
Kieran Gibbs: Lions couldn't chase me out of this city at the moment.
Peter McCormack: Listen, I'll tell you why I've always wanted to do this, because we don't have a team where we are. Our nearest teams are MK Dons, which I've got no interest in; Milton Keynes; Luton, Cambridge. I mean, we don't have a team. Well, we do, so far, but I've always wanted to do this. But how do you have the money to create a team that can compete? And now, I've got a way I can do this, because I'm just going to leverage the platform. I showed you the shirt; we can sell 10,000 shirts, sell sponsorship, where most of the clubs in the division we're in maybe turnover £15,000 to £20,000 for that year, we can turnover over £1 million.
So, for us to climb the leagues is actually going to be quite easy and leverage it and make it the Bitcoin Club. So, yeah mate, I'm excited.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, that's really good. Congratulations.
Peter McCormack: Maybe we'll get you down for one game when you're in.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, I'll come down and talk to the players.
Danny Knowles: Might need a Director of Football in a few years.
Peter McCormack: So, you grew up in Lambeth?
Kieran Gibbs: I grew up in Croydon, I was born in Lambeth.
Peter McCormack: Oh, you were born in Lambeth?
Kieran Gibbs: I was born in Lambeth, King's College, and then grew up in Croydon up until I moved to North London when I was 15 to do the scholarship.
Peter McCormack: Were you a Palace fan?
Kieran Gibbs: I was Wimbledon.
Peter McCormack: Oh, you were actually Wimbledon?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. Well, because I was there since I was 9, my family were all Arsenal and if it wasn't for Wimbledon, I'm still a huge Arsenal fan, I've got kit since I was 2 years old, 2 or 3 years old; but it was just because the players would be able to ball boy at Selhurst Park, because we played for the Academy. So, we would go and train, and then we'd go down to Selhurst Park and ball boy, and that was my first real experience of going to watch a game. I used to watch Shipperley --
Peter McCormack: That's a name!
Kieran Gibbs: -- Nigel Reo-Coker, who we loved back then, because he was still young, and he was who all the boys looked up to. Jobi McAnuff, yeah, there was a few. But I would also follow Palace, because it was South London, they were the South London clubs.
Peter McCormack: Andy Johnson fan?
Kieran Gibbs: Andy Johnson. Who was Palace?
Peter McCormack: So, my son was in school with Andy Johnson's son, and his son's now playing for Stevenage, he's doing all right.
Kieran Gibbs: Nice, hell of a player.
Peter McCormack: He's a Bedford lad.
Kieran Gibbs: Nice, so maybe you can get him down there then?
Peter McCormack: Maybe, get his boots back on! I think Parish has done a great job at Palace.
Kieran Gibbs: Brilliant, brilliant. They're cemented now, pretty much. And I'm loving Conor Gallagher's season, because I played with him when he was on loan last season at West Brom, and I knew he was a player.
Peter McCormack: He's decent; have you seen him?
Danny Knowles: No, I've not.
Peter McCormack: He's this blond-haired lad. He's scored a few goals, hasn't he, and he played for England the other day. He's solid.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, great player, great kid as well.
Peter McCormack: So, there's a lot of people listening now who are going to be, "Shut the fuck up, I'm here for Bitcoin. Why the fuck are you talking about football?", Americans! Although Ted Lasso has changed it a little bit. But one of the things we wanted to talk about, let's talk about Bitcoin first. How did you get into this, because there's not been many footballers? Who have we seen? There was the German guy, and there's two or three we see occasionally; but when we see it, we're like, "Okay". Where did this come from for you; how did you get into this?
Kieran Gibbs: Well, first of all, I think there's probably more, probably now over the last two years. As adoption comes, people can do it on their phones easily, so people are buying. So, there are more footballers than we would probably think that are involved in it.
But I got introduced to it back in -- someone mentioned it to me in 2015 and I kind of fell into the trap of what the narrative was around it then, about the black market and illegal activity, so I kind of just closed the door on it straightaway, left it for another two years. Then, when I signed at West Brom --
Peter McCormack: Do you know why that's funny? That's how I got into it; I was buying stuff on the black market!
Kieran Gibbs: I'm sure you were, trying to fund Bedford! And then, it was actually when I signed at West Brom, I met Hal Robson-Kanu; you know Hal Robson-Kanu?
Peter McCormack: Yeah. Because I told you I was born in Reading, I used to go and watch Reading play, and I used to watch him when he played. He scored that great goal for Wales, that great goal, that fucking turn.
Kieran Gibbs: He's still a very good friend of mine, but it was him, I have to thank him, to be honest. I mean, he is a blockchain expert, believe it or not, way further down the rabbit hole than me, and he just spoke so passionately about it, and that started to change my mindset on it a little bit. Then I just started from the beginning of everything really, of how we transact as humans, before we discovered gold. I feel like it kind of does that to you, because you only know what you know. Then, when something like this comes along, you start to question things.
So, I started from zero, from the beginning, and went through the history of money, and then came to quickly find out -- I just quickly ran out of arguments against it, and I think that's what it does to you, doesn't it? Once it gets you, the penny just starts to drop and then all of a sudden, you're running out of bad things to say about it, once you actually do the work on it.
Peter McCormack: So, you read The Bitcoin Standard?
Kieran Gibbs: I read The Bitcoin Standard. I'm like three-quarters of the way through that, which is funny, because I spoke to Saifedean and so I'm only still on the actual money part; I haven't got to the Bitcoin part yet.
Peter McCormack: Me and Saifedean aren't friends.
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, no!
Peter McCormack: I disagree with him on modern art.
Kieran Gibbs: Modern art?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, there's a section you'll get to in the book, where he hates modern art.
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, right.
Peter McCormack: So, he probably hates NFTs as well. Danny, what do you think the ropiest shitcoin is he owns; what do you reckon? Do you reckon he's got some Shibu?
Danny Knowles: Oh, he's definitely got some Shibu.
Kieran Gibbs: No chance.
Danny Knowles: You've got some Doge?
Kieran Gibbs: No, I'm a 90% or 95% --
Danny Knowles: So, you're nearly there.
Peter McCormack: That's a pass, yeah. 5% impure. I reckon the rest is Ethereum, right, maybe a bit of Solana?
Kieran Gibbs: No, a bit of Ethereum, but I can't deal with reading over 3,000 whitepapers.
Danny Knowles: Yeah, that would be a waste of time.
Peter McCormack: So, did you read the Bitcoin whitepaper?
Kieran Gibbs: I did. I mean, I saw a lot of Ps and Qs, which I'm no computer scientist. But I think you just quickly learn, just by using it and people talking about it, that it's an extremely robust system that is designed, basically, to only go up!
Peter McCormack: Up only! Do a lot of footballers talk about it?
Kieran Gibbs: A lot more now.
Peter McCormack: Is it part of the dressing room?
Kieran Gibbs: A lot more now, yeah.
Danny Knowles: Are you the Bitcoin guy in the dressing room?
Kieran Gibbs: In Miami, I would say probably. A few of them do different stocks and they talk about this trade and that trade that their friends told them about, because you've got all of these, like Robinhood and all of these apps now that's just making it so much more accessible. You've got the retail people flooding in. But I don't do any of that. I don't do any stock stuff really, on my phone anyway.
Peter McCormack: What about Becks; is Becks in on it?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, Becks comes in and gets some tips, gives some tips out to the boys.
Peter McCormack: Has he got some Bitcoin? What's he like?
Kieran Gibbs: He's great. Whenever he's in Miami, he comes in every day.
Danny Knowles: Did you know him before this move?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. I mean, we're not best mates, but I played -- I'm not sure if I had an England camp with him now, I can't remember, but he trained, didn't he? Remember when, I think he was at the Galaxy. During his off-season, he went to come back and train.
Peter McCormack: He trained at the Arsenal, right?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, so we'd have a couple of weeks with him then. And his son, Romeo, is a big, big Arsenal fan, so they would come a lot to the games in the dressing room. Romeo would get his shirt signed from all the players. He's like that big, and it's so weird to see him now.
Peter McCormack: He's massive now.
Danny Knowles: How did he get away with being an Arsenal fan?
Peter McCormack: I don't know.
Kieran Gibbs: He's a big Gooner.
Peter McCormack: He's playing here, right, isn't he?
Kieran Gibbs: He plays for Fort Lauderdale FC, I think it's the feeder club. But it's all in the same building. So, yeah.
Peter McCormack: I tell you something, Beckham's the only person who's made me cry. I cried when he retired.
Kieran Gibbs: Did you?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I did, I got upset.
Kieran Gibbs: Wow. Well, he was one of our greats, wasn't he?
Peter McCormack: I was in Spain on holiday, in, where is it? Fuerteventura, one of those places, to the Greece game, all my mates in the pub. We're 2-1 down and he scored that goal, and it was a special moment. But yeah, when he retired, I did, I got a little bit upset. I love Beckham.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, great guy.
Peter McCormack: Can you ask him to be my mate, come on the podcast?!
Danny Knowles: Get him on the podcast.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, we'll get him on the podcast! So, listen, you take half your salary now in Bitcoin; that's the thing that's been going through sports. We see Odell Beckham Jr is taking his salary, Russ Okung, Sean Culkin wanted to before they cut him, fuckers. But that's a bit of a thing that's happening now; why did you decide to do that?
Kieran Gibbs: A few reasons. I'll try and keep it as short as possible. I don't know if I'm the first football player.
Peter McCormack: First I've heard of.
Kieran Gibbs: But I don't think I'll be the last. Firstly, it's a right of ours to try and keep up, or at least outpace, at the very least, inflation. So, at the moment, if you get paid in dollars, you're having to get at least a 10% pay rise every year in order for your life not to keep getting more expensive. So, when you look at what else you can get paid in, you can't get paid in gold, much to your boy, Peter Schiff's, demise!
Peter McCormack: He'll be pissed off at that!
Kieran Gibbs: So, all roads end up leading towards Bitcoin. So, yeah, I think that's probably one of the main reasons. But I think, going deeper than that, Bitcoin for me has the ability to solve a lot of big, big problems in the world, I believe. So, that's kind of why I would come out and advocate it, because I love what it represents and what it stands for.
Peter McCormack: You've gone well down the rabbit hole. So, what kind of a response did you get to that; were other footballers thinking, "What the fuck are you doing here?"
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, my mum called me and she said, "I'm getting on the first flight and taking you out of there"! She's like, "What have you done?" No, it was only a week ago or so, but I haven't really seen a lot of the reaction. I got a lot of reaction from the crypto world, which was funny, because I actually ended up meeting people like you and people that I've followed and listened to, because it's a hobby of mine. A lot of people do different things in their spare time.
I love the crypto community, they crack me up so much, they're so funny. Even stuff like this, I follow a lot of the gold versus Bitcoin debates. I get a kick out of it, so I actually got a lot of attention in the crypto world and got to meet people like you and a few other people that I've spoken to, which has been great, because I'm almost a fan of you guys and what you guys are doing.
Peter McCormack: Which is really weird, by the way, because I would have been watching you playing football on telly years ago, and I set up as a podcast as a joke and now I'm here doing this.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, that's life, right?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, it's weird how it works out.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, it is. I'll be down in Bedford literally, I might go down there next week when I get back to London.
Peter McCormack: Mate, do it, we'll get you down, we'll get you down for the game.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, come and watch the game.
Peter McCormack: You can meet the team!
Kieran Gibbs: But yeah, I hope that other players would at least do the work on it and educate themselves. I would never say to anyone, "Go and do this [or] buy this", but by announcing it, it shows people, "What is this?" and that's the most important.
Peter McCormack: Well, one of the things we were talking about this morning is financial literacy amongst specifically footballers, trying to understand what it's like, because there is that continual depressing story where you'll see an ex-footballer from years ago and they're broke and they've not got any money and they've had a great life.
Neil Ruddock, we were talking about, it just seems like he's jumping around from show to show and what's he blown his money on? Did that change; do they teach that to footballers now? When you come through, do they try and help you manage your finances, because you suddenly go from -- I don't know what you get on a scholarship, but suddenly to a massive salary?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. It's so much different here actually to the UK. It's getting better in the UK, I think, but you don't have to go through the college system back home. So, you turn 16 or 17 to sign a professional contract, and that's pretty much it. You get an agent and he finds you a financial adviser, and that's it. You get your allowance to spend on whatever you want, and then the rest of it is kind of dealt with.
Peter McCormack: So, they do start managing money for you?
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, yeah. Depending on, at 17, what your parents are like, if they want to just keep it all for themselves, or manage it as a family, or put you with someone that can help try and navigate your finances through the world. But in terms of players being able to learn themselves, it's just a lot harder there, because here you have to go through the uni and then you get drafted.
Peter McCormack: They even do that in soccer? Why am I saying soccer? Fucking embarrassing.
Kieran Gibbs: That's awful, I'm getting out!
Peter McCormack: Have you found yourself doing it?
Kieran Gibbs: I have to.
Peter McCormack: It's bollocks, isn't it?
Kieran Gibbs: You have to, yeah. When I meet people, I say football, then they look at me and they're like, "You weigh about 65 kilos"!
Peter McCormack: What are you, a wide receiver?!
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, so I have to learn to say soccer. There's a lot of other sayings as well that I've had to learn that are really annoying.
Peter McCormack: Sneakers; do you say "sneakers"?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, sneakers, runners, they call them runners. Cleats is boots.
Danny Knowles: Cleats?
Peter McCormack: Boots? They had that in Lasso, didn't they, "What do you mean, you put your boots in the boot?"
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah!
Peter McCormack: So, yeah, that is one of the things on our mind, do they teach you the financial literacy? And, if you could throw people down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, at least they'll be thinking about money. It makes them think about what money is, what it means.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. I honestly think I just genuinely got lucky by meeting people like Robson and a few other people that I've got to know in the space over the last few years.
Peter McCormack: Hold on, didn't he score at the weekend?
Kieran Gibbs: No, he's not playing, he's a free agent at the moment.
Peter McCormack: Is he? Are you going to get him out here?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, I had a call with him the other day. There's a few players that I'm trying to poach at the moment.
Peter McCormack: So, what's the first flash motor you bought?
Kieran Gibbs: Flash motor?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, you must have gone out a bought a flash motor?
Kieran Gibbs: Do you know what, that's the funny thing, I've never really been into cars.
Peter McCormack: But every footballer goes and gets a flash motor.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah. I think I got a C-Class when I was 18, which I was thrilled with. But even that now, my auntie drives that, she's still got that now. I gave it to her.
Danny Knowles: So, you never did the mirrored Range Rover?
Kieran Gibbs: No, I never did the mirrored Range Rover. I mean, I've always had really nice cars. I'm a bit of a Range Rover guy, I can't do low cars, I can't do sports cars.
Peter McCormack: I thought it was a G-Wagon now, I thought everyone had a G-Wagon.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, the G-Wagon.
Danny Knowles: You've got a G-Wagon, haven't you?!
Kieran Gibbs: No, I haven't. I like the Defender at the moment, so I'm looking at one of them. There's quite a few of them here. They're not that popular back home, but here it's a nice ride. And they're in the Bond movie as well, the new Bond movie.
Peter McCormack: Do you know what, I cried at the end of that as well. I know it sounds like I cry a lot.
Danny Knowles: God, you said Becks was the only person that made you cry.
Peter McCormack: No, he's the only footballer. Yeah, I cried at that as well.
Kieran Gibbs: So, Daniel Craig's the only actor that's made you cry?!
Peter McCormack: No, a few have made me cry. I've cried at ET! We can't talk about that film in case somebody's not seen it, but it did make me cry. Can't talk about it. So, out here in the US, you're loving it, you're enjoying it out here?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, just a totally different mentality out here, and just a lot of interesting people. There's a lot of things happening, and obviously especially for crypto.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, it's massive.
Kieran Gibbs: So, it's great to be here during that. I've met a lot of fascinating people, and you just have to realise that the smartest people in the world are building this future.
Peter McCormack: You'll get a lot of opportunities, a lot of people will want to talk to you now, they'll want you at the events. You could take on as much of this as you want.
Danny Knowles: I'll bring you as my plus one.
Peter McCormack: I'll bring you as my plus one. We'll be at the conference though. Are you going to come to the conference? You should come to the conference.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, I'd love to. I went this year and I really enjoyed it. I love all of the speakers. I'm a big, huge fan of the Saylors, the Jack Mallers. These are people that are going to pioneer; they're pioneers over the next few decades, I believe.
Peter McCormack: It's a wild community, though.
Kieran Gibbs: It's wild. That's why I love it; it's wild. It's a bit rough round the edges, people are so smart, but they just don't really care, they don't really listen to what the other side of the fence says, they're just so bullish.
Peter McCormack: They're savage though.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, savage.
Peter McCormack: They're savage, be careful.
Kieran Gibbs: When you've been in the football world, it doesn't get more savage than that, mate!
Peter McCormack: Who is savage in football?
Kieran Gibbs: Savage for me, Joe Walsh. Still one of my closest friends in football. Love him to bits and we've had some savage moments together in our day.
Peter McCormack: I miss seeing him play.
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, God, I mean…
Peter McCormack: I remember that goal for Arsenal, the one where there were like 20 passes in really quick succession. It was one of the goals of the season. Were you playing in that game?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, against Norwich, I think, at home. When he's like a knife through butter. I've just not really seen many players like him.
Peter McCormack: Did you play with Jermaine Pennant, or was he before you?
Kieran Gibbs: He was before me, yeah.
Peter McCormack: Did you ever hear that story about him where he got called up for his first game in the morning and apparently he'd been on the piss the night before. He turns up, he'd had two hours' sleep, he scored a hattrick!
Kieran Gibbs: Did he? I like that!
Peter McCormack: I like that a lot. So, listen, we're building this football team, we need some football friends.
Kieran Gibbs: You're building this football team?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, Bedford. We need some football friends. What advice would you give me?
Kieran Gibbs: I mean, you have to hire Ted Lasso!
Peter McCormack: It's mad what that's done for football out here.
Kieran Gibbs: Unbelievable. They love it. It's one of the first things that people say to me, every time I meet someone out here. I'm English and I play soccer, "Have you seen Ted Lasso?" They've done so well, and they've just closed the rights, I saw, for the rest of the Premier League. They got like £60 million to have the rights of all the teams, because I think they only had, was it Palace?
Peter McCormack: Well, it's all filmed at Palace, right?
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, but then I think it had Man City. I haven't watched all of the seasons, but they did that well that they've closed the deal with the Premier League!
Peter McCormack: Amazing!
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, the new season, they'll have all of the teams.
Peter McCormack: They should get some good cameos in.
Danny Knowles: It will be like Pro Evo, where they had to --
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, yeah!
Peter McCormack: Pro Evo, you remember that?
Danny Knowles: Yeah. North London Red!
Peter McCormack: Yeah, and you'd get one team. So, do you know my Pro Evo story?
Danny Knowles: No.
Peter McCormack: So, I lost in the final of the UK National Pro Evo tournament about 20 years ago.
Danny Knowles: You loser!
Peter McCormack: Fuck off! I went to Birmingham with my brother, they had a national tournament. There were like a thousand people in this hall, and I turn up. And everyone had their team on their memory card, but I didn't have mine. So, I've borrowed people's teams, because you remember you could have the classic ones, Maradona and Pelé and Beckenbauer?
Danny Knowles: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: So, I was borrowing it all the way through, and I lost in the final 2-1. I got all the way through, and the guy who won, he got to go to Corsica for a week for the World Finals. I was fucking gutted, devastated. That was my big moment in football.
Kieran Gibbs: So far.
Peter McCormack: Well, yeah, and I scored at St James' Park.
Kieran Gibbs: That's Newcastle?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, Sunday League Team!
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, right. So, who was that for?
Peter McCormack: So, one of our players was a big Newcastle fan. He found out that you can pay to play on the pitch and they do it in the summer. They have three games a day, and then they take that money and re-lay the pitch. So, we paid and we played some other team, and I mean I'm big now, but I was really big then, and I played for 20 minutes and managed to score a 25-yard lob! It was just one of those ones you hoof and it went in! That was my moment of glory, absolute moment of glory.
So, we're going to have to seed you with a few other people. I think you should talk to Preston Pysh.
Kieran Gibbs: Oh, yeah, I follow that guy. I like him a lot. I mean, who else is there that I really love watching? Breedlove.
Peter McCormack: Breedlove, yeah, but I can't understand what he's on about most of the time. It's like going into a vortex. But they'll all be here when we come to Miami next year.
Kieran Gibbs: Yeah, I'd love to meet them all.
Peter McCormack: I think we should try and get you on a panel.
Kieran Gibbs: I don't know if I'm ready for that. You've gone easy on me so far today, anyway.
Peter McCormack: Well, it's only 5% shitcoins.
Kieran Gibbs: That's not too bad.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, we can let that go.
Kieran Gibbs: For now.
Peter McCormack: For now, Kieran. Well listen, mate, great to meet you, thanks for coming, appreciate this a lot.
Kieran Gibbs: A pleasure, thanks for having me.
Peter McCormack: And if you ever need anything or connecting with anyone, let us know and when the Bedford thing's done, we'll get you down. I'd love to do that.
Kieran Gibbs: Perfect. I want a season ticket at Bedford as well.
Peter McCormack: Well, I'm not even going to charge for tickets. Honestly, when you get down there and see it, it's about as shit as you can imagine!
Kieran Gibbs: Mate, you've got to build from the bottom.
Peter McCormack: The only way is up. The ground's going to be the citadel. We're calling them Real Bedford.
Kieran Gibbs: Perfect.
Peter McCormack: Inter Bedford didn't work!
Kieran Gibbs: No, it's not got the ring to it.
Peter McCormack: All right, Kieran, listen, great to meet you, man, good luck with this, good to have you on team Bitcoin and hope to see you soon, man.
Kieran Gibbs: Top man.Cheers, guys, thank you very much.
