WBD333 Audio Transcription
Bitcoin Rehab: BitcoinTINA Yells at Everyone with American HODL & BitcoinTINA
Interview date: Monday 12th April
Note: the following is a transcription of my interview with American HODL & BitcoinTINA. I have reviewed the transcription but if you find any mistakes, please feel free to email me. You can listen to the original recording here.
In this interview, I talk to American HODL & BitcoinTINA. We discuss the current market conditions, if we are in a supercycle, and Hodl and I bet another bitcoin, this time on whether the price reaches $300k in 2021.
“This business of crashing, that’s only because we’ve had these stupid idiots who had too much bitcoin who thought they could play with this market, and they’re wrong; they can’t play with the market. Bitcoin is going to be ripped out of those sellers hands; they will never own bitcoin again, they will not be able to afford to own bitcoin, they will have less because they played dumb games.”
— BitcoinTINA
Interview Transcription
Peter McCormack: TINA, finally, finally, I get you on here, it's taken long enough, man, how are you?
BitcoinTINA: I'm good, Peter, how are you?
Peter McCormack: I'm good, man. HODL, how are you, my friend?
American HODL: I'm doing good, I'm happy to be on a podcast with BitcoinTINA because I can just sit this one out. He's going to do all the talking.
Peter McCormack: That's not true, we've got a few things to resolve. TINA, listen man, I'm worried that you're going to give yourself a cardiac on Clubhouse. Every time I go to Clubhouse, it doesn't matter what time of the day there's a room, and you're always there and then I click on the room and I go in and you're yelling at people.
BitcoinTINA: I figured out why that may be. I think a part of that are my EarPods; I swear to God it's true. My wife, she never wears EarPods and the other day she was watching something and she's like screaming at me; she never does this. I think that I don't really hear myself with some of these EarPods and when you don't hear yourself… So I have a headset now that I can sort of hear the ambient noise, but when I can't hear myself --
Peter McCormack: We need you a bit louder now.
BitcoinTINA: What's that?
Peter McCormack: I need you a bit louder now.
BitcoinTINA: You need me louder?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, that's better. Okay, that's the problem. Maybe that's what it is. You're good now but, dude, you're always yelling at people, man.
BitcoinTINA: Because I think I'm not hearing myself, that's why I'm yelling, because I'm wearing those EarPods and I don't hear me, and so since I don't hear me, I end up raising my voice; and I think that's part of the problem.
American HODL: This is a very convenient excuse, TINA, very convenient.
Peter McCormack: Don't think so. I come in and I don't ever remember hearing you swearing but you're definitely yelling at people.
BitcoinTINA: It's definitely the EarPods. I'm filled with love; I'm filled with love for people and Bitcoin. It's the EarPods that are the damn problem.
Peter McCormack: You're shouting at shitcoiners.
BitcoinTINA: Well, they deserve it. A lot of people always start off -- it's funny because it always kind of goes the same way and I don't know how I pick up on it. I was in a room the other day, the guy started off, I don't even remember what he was saying, but it was clear that somehow there was something wrong. Then some of the other people in the room started asking him, "Tell us about Davecoin?" They prompted him enough, he started talking he says, "Well, I'm working on this thing on Paradigm, or whatever it is". They knocked him off the stage, it wasn't even me.
These people they have their own tells; they can't help themselves because they're there for a reason. They are there to shill some coin and they want to come into Bitcoin rooms, and they want to shill to the audience that we've got.
American HODL: One of the biggest red flags is if somebody says "crypto", right off the bat you know they're a scammer, right off the bat. That is a massive red flag, huge.
Peter McCormack: There's a variety of things, we had a guy the other day when I had Weinstein on. I got him for about 45 minutes on Clubhouse and then we opened up the floor and some guy came on and I didn't realise, but D++ warned me that he's like an XRP shill, and he just wanted to have the conversation. He tried to fill the conversation in by how the technology can help Bitcoin, and I was like, "What?" I was, "Look, dude", I was even nice about it; I was like, "Come on, man. We're just having a chat about Bitcoin, I respect you. If you want to invest in these things, that's cool; we're not going to do it now". He started to lose his shit and say, "Why do I always get kicked out of these rooms?" It's just like, "Look, man, we're doing a covers right now".
American HODL: "You're censoring me".
Peter McCormack: "You're censoring me, I want to talk".
BitcoinTINA: They shouldn't mind the censorship because they own coins that can be censored, so they should get used to that.
Peter McCormack: TINA in with a hot date.
American HODL: It's true.
Peter McCormack: TINA, for about the first eight months of talking to you online I thought you were a girl. I think everyone thinks that.
BitcoinTINA: I've heard that before. Actually I met some people -- I don't want to mention the names because I don't want to embarrass them, but I met some people at a conference. The guy said to me, "I thought you were a girl".
Peter McCormack: That was me.
BitcoinTINA: No, it's not you.
Peter McCormack: I said that to you at that dinner, at that Homefires BBQ; I was like, "I thought you were a chick".
BitcoinTINA: That's not the first time I heard that.
Peter McCormack: I was like, "Who's this chick sliding into my DMs, wants to talk to me about Bitcoin all the time?"
BitcoinTINA: That's so funny.
American HODL: It's because there is no alternative.
Peter McCormack: There is no alternative.
American HODL: It's a very boomer meme. I think younger people don't know it; they've never heard it before.
BitcoinTINA: It must be because actually to be honest with you, I didn't even realise that was a Maggie Thatcher meme when I met Max in San Fran, he actually had mentioned that. I actually didn't know it; I only knew it from Rick Santelli because he had used that on CNBC around the time like 2008 or 2009.
Peter McCormack: Have you got a boomer Telegram group with you and Gary Leland and Max?
BitcoinTINA: I do not, maybe we need a boomer Telegram; it sounds boring though. I like talking to the young guys like American HODL. I love talking to Max and Gary too.
Peter McCormack: We should introduce you properly TINA. Tell people who you are that don't know you, as much as you want to tell.
BitcoinTINA: Like what?
Peter McCormack: You've got an interesting background.
BitcoinTINA: I don't talk about it that much.
American HODL: Yeah, you do.
BitcoinTINA: I've traded for many years.
Peter McCormack: You always talk about it.
American HODL: Every TINA story starts with, "I used to trade and here's how I used to do it".
BitcoinTINA: You guys should give my background because I think you may know it better than I do.
Peter McCormack: It's nice for you to introduce it, dude.
BitcoinTINA: I traded for years; I followed markets for years; I've been interested in Wall Street and basically, ironically had a bit of a macro bent. Some of my best trades ever were macro trades, but I also looked at individual stocks, I did a lot of my own research, I did a lot of individual work.
Basically, I guess had I not kept thinking that we're going to have a deflationary depression and the Fed was going to do the right thing, I'd have had a lot more money, so I made that mistake. Finally realised after like 20 years that, "This is stupid". It then became obvious to me that the Fed policy is never going to easy forever unless they decide to get religion in which case, they'll crash everything, but Bitcoin will still do great and at least you get your money out of Bitcoin at that point.
Peter McCormack: Did you get the Bitcoin thing straight away or did you have to bump into it a few times like some of us.
BitcoinTINA: I did bump into it a few times, I heard Trace Mayer in 2014 at a conference and I talked to him afterwards. The guy who was running the conference kind of poo-pooed Bitcoin and I respected the guy who was running the conference, who was a pretty good stock analyst. I was really interested, I went and talked to Trace after he presented and we spoke for like half an hour; I thought it was really interesting. I didn't realise this till later, I stupidly did not ask him, "How do I buy Bitcoin?" which was really dumb of me.
Then it fell off my radar and it just didn't hit me up. I had subscribed to another newsletter and never paid attention to that newsletter. For some reason I started looking at it in 2017 and they started talking about that they were talking about Bitcoin. I think they're probably talking about since 2016 at least. It caught my attention again and it was moving up and I started doing work on it in May 2017 and then bought my first Bitcoin end of September 2017.
In fact, I was talking about it a lot with people trying to learn, trying to understand and somebody said to me, "You've been talking about this for a while, when are you going to actually buy some?" I said, "Yeah, yeah that's a really good point there". In some ways my experience is not different than many other people's, kind of dragging your feet, getting into it. The idea of getting off of zero was so important. I kept doing work and just dove down the rabbit hole.
I wish that I had not let it slip off my radar. Then there were times when friends had discussed it with me, and again I was like most people, "Well, I don't really need that. I'm doing other things".
Peter McCormack: Yeah, but we all did that.
BitcoinTINA: That seems to be the theme for people. You've just asked, I said, "Same thing; same thing for me".
Peter McCormack: We all wish we'd got there earlier, and not fucked up a few times, but it happens. HODL, man, how has your week been?
American HODL: It's been good, man. God, I'm so fucking bored, I need a new all-time high like yesterday. I thought we were going to hit it like last night or the night before and no, stuck in fucking $59K, fucking purgatory forever, Jesus Christ. It feels like a really, really long consolidation although I know I'm just addicted to the Dopamine rush of new all-time highs. I don't even know why I care because I'm not a trader, but I'm addicted to seeing the number go up on the screen.
Peter McCormack: Can you watch your language; I've had two emails this week saying there's too much swearing in the show.
American HODL: Tell those people to eat my dick, politely, respectfully. Respectfully shove my dick in your mouth, respectfully.
Peter McCormack: I'm probably not going to do that. Also, I told you, my dad's going to listen to this one. I can't get him to listen to my podcast, and he was like, "Give me one show to listen to", and he listened to this one and he basically really likes you. He was like, "Let me know when he's back on". Cheers, dad.
American HODL: It goes to everybody except Peter's dad, everybody else can eat my dick. Peter's dad seems like a very lovely gentleman.
Peter McCormack: Sorry, dad.
American HODL: What does your father think about you getting an Aston Martin?
Peter McCormack: He loves it.
American HODL: Does he think you're too big for your britches now?
Peter McCormack: No, he's like, "You've worked your fucking balls off". He knows more than anyone how much I've worked and how much shit I've been through the last five years, he loves it.
American HODL: What do the Bedford townspeople think about you? They see you driving around, like, "Look at this motherfucker, this guy".
Peter McCormack: Round here we -- I don't know, man, I don't talk to anyone. My dad gets his Jag this week, do you know I bought my dad a Jag?
American HODL: Yeah, you bought your dad a Jaguar too, right. What the fuck, Peter? Why are you so high time preference, bro? The plebs are not going to enjoy this, they're going to be like, "This is about sovereignty, how dare you".
Peter McCormack: I know, I kind of enjoy that side of it, that's why I keep posting pictures of it, just to fuck with them.
American HODL: Does it not really fuck with you that the money you spend on like let's say an Aston Martin now -- I now you have your stupid BlockFi nonsense where you've like worked out an --
Peter McCormack: It's not even that.
American HODL: I know, I know, but does it bother you the opportunity cost of all the wasted potential because Bitcoin's at $60K and that seems like a lot of money, but we all know and believe that it's going into the multi-millions category and then into the tens of millions category; so every Bitcoin you waste now is a potential $20 million in the future.
Peter McCormack: I'm 42 now, right?
American HODL: It'll only take another 10 or 15 years for the s-curve to play out in terms of adoption. It's not going to take forever.
Peter McCormack: I'll be nearly 60. Actually, my dad knows, I've done a lot of drugs in my time so I might not even live that long. I totally get the hodl thing and what everyone's saying, etc, and it's a good meme but at the same time I'm 42, man, and I feel like I'm getting older quickly and like everything's starting to break in my body. Time is scarce as well, dude. I've got to enjoy something.
American HODL: Yeah, this is interesting with TINA because TINA you're in your 60s, right?
BitcoinTINA: No, not yet.
American HODL: 50 what? 50 something?
BitcoinTINA: Late 50s.
American HODL: Sorry.
BitcoinTINA: Getting really close to 60, really close.
American HODL: So, TINA's like 58, 59.
BitcoinTINA: I feel like everything's breaking too.
Peter McCormack: You should definitely be spending some Bitcoin, TINA.
BitcoinTINA: I plan on it, but here's the thing. I actually think it's going to hit some really high numbers pretty fast, and I just don't want to part with too much. First of all, I don't think it's a one-year phenomena, I don't think it's a one-year cycle and then it goes to hell next year. I think it's going to be this year, $200,000, $300,000 by year end.
Peter McCormack: Good timing.
BitcoinTINA: I think you have some correction and then the year after is going to be between $500,000 and $700,000. Year after that, it's going to be $1 million to $1.2 million and unless it goes $200,000 or $300,000 this year, and goes to over a million next year, $1 million, $1.5 million, which is really possible that you get what I call the hardest trade where it just doesn't let people in.
I think you're going to get a lot of FOMOing, and I think there'd be a lot of big buyers who are going to not want to chase it but they're going to come in and buy the dip. I think this works out very differently than most people think, because I frame it differently than most people frame it.
Peter McCormack: Also, HODL, I haven't actually sold -- I took finance out on the Aston.
American HODL: What about the Jag though? Did you sell any for the Jag?
Peter McCormack: No, I'm just paying cash for that, but all I'm doing is like opportunity cost and buying more Bitcoin.
American HODL: Opportunity cost, yeah.
Peter McCormack: I've stacked this year. This last year, I've stacked, man, so I'm happy where I am right.
American HODL: We both know, you never have enough Bitcoin, you never have enough.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, but you never have enough time.
American HODL: Do you really feel happy with your stack, because I don't?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, but --
BitcoinTINA: I don't feel happy with my stack.
American HODL: I don't feel happy with my stack.
Peter McCormack: I would like more, but you know what; if it goes to what TINA says is right, I can have whatever holiday I ever want, I can buy Bedford Town Football Club and I'm happy. I've got everything I need.
American HODL: See, I thought during the bear market, I really thought, I really believed that I was doing a really good job stacking, living on less, going hard, buying at the right time, buying the dips and I didn't manage to meaningfully increase my stack. But when I look back on it, I think, "God, there was so much shit that I spent money on that really was just a waste and I didn't actually need".
If I'd had a little more discipline -- and I know you've got to live life, etc, but like there was stuff I just straight up didn't need that I spent money on because of just human weakness, because I just couldn't help myself. When I look back on my performance over the bear market, I really have to give myself a B+ and I wanted to give myself an A+ and it just wasn't fucking good enough unfortunately.
Peter McCormack: You're never going to spend all the money you make from your Bitcoin.
BitcoinTINA: He shouldn't.
American HODL: You shouldn't.
BitcoinTINA: What do you mean he's not going to be able to spend it?
American HODL: You got to leave it for your kids, right.
BitcoinTINA: I'm actually worried that after taxes, my whole concern is I'm trying to figure out when will we be able to borrow against it in a way that makes sense so that we really don't have to spend very much? That's actually my biggest concern, because take a big tax hit and then spend it and you don't have the money to spend. I would like to be able to borrow against it and ideally, I'd like to be able to do it in a way that's trust-minimised.
Peter McCormack: If it goes to where we think it's going, HODL, you can leave a shit ton for your kids and still not spend it all, I know that. I was trying to think of a ratio today like if you spent 10% of your fiat stack, I priced it in fiat, I spent 10% each year, you can have a great life and you never run out of money.
American HODL: Yes, probably accurate.
Peter McCormack: I want to know what the good ratio is, so by the time I get to the end there's an all right amount to leave for some people. I'll give you an example, this will sound like a sad story but it's a good way of explaining it. You know about my mum passing away a few years ago, right?
American HODL: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: My dad worked like a motherfucker his whole life right, like literally worked unbelievably hard to give us a good life; sent us to a good school and all that shit. He used to go in and work 24-hour shifts at the airport, they used to call it the ghost shift; or he would do like four days on, four days off and the four days off when there was overtime, he would take it and sometimes he would just go straight through.
I don't know anyone who's worked as hard as him and they retired. I'm trying to remember, I think they got about ten years, nine years in Ireland, but maybe seven years in is when my mum got sick and they didn't know that was coming, so stuff happens.
American HODL: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: I hope I live old, but what if next year I get cancer or even five years; I want to make sure I'm still enjoying stuff like having holidays, doing stuff I want to do. Yeah, there's the opportunity cost, but time has an opportunity cost.
American HODL: Yeah, that's true.
BitcoinTINA: I've already cancer and a heart attack.
Peter McCormack: Fucking hell, man. How are you still alive?
BitcoinTINA: I'm still alive.
Peter McCormack: I didn't even know that, what cancer did you have?
BitcoinTINA: See, I don't talk about it.
Peter McCormack: You don't talk about it, okay, well I won't ask.
BitcoinTINA: I had prostate cancer; I had my prostate removed.
Peter McCormack: Jesus.
BitcoinTINA: My father died from it.
American HODL: So, did my father, my father died from prostate cancer.
BitcoinTINA: Yeah.
American HODL: Good shit that you got it removed. See, I have a different perspective on this, Pete, I think that we come from this very materialistic consumption-based culture where we have all these ideas of, "I need a fancy car", and, "I need to go on these fancy vacations", and, "I need to do this and that", and then you basically die with a picture book of memories from all of the trips I took to exotic locales and things like this.
None of that is meaningful. Spending the money so that you can spend time with your loved ones, yes, that is very important and that is always important, and you should definitely do that, you should spend money where you can to earn back time. But, spending money on material items I think is just always an absolute waste.
BitcoinTINA: I'm going to make a bet with you and it's not a bet we're going to actually bet money on, but I'm going to bet that the joy you got from giving your father that Jag is going to be much more than the joy you get from any car you give yourself.
Peter McCormack: No, fuck him as well. No, I'm only kidding because he's going to be listening. No, it is, my dad always wanted a Jag, like as a kid.
BitcoinTINA: You had a lot of joy giving him that, didn't you?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, because he always wanted one when I was a kid. I think it was the XJR he always liked, and he could never afford it. He spent all his money putting us through school, so I'd always planned to get him one. It was a bit earlier than I planned but he phoned me up a couple of months ago because he's got some Kia thing and he was thinking of changing it, I was like, "For fuck's sake, if you had just waited three months". I've actually bought it sooner than I wanted to, but I've definitely got a lot of joy out of that.
I've done some stuff for my brother and sister and various other people. Do you know what I think the difference is? I'm going to make two points: firstly, have you listened to Rogan this week, HODL?
American HODL: I have not, no.
Peter McCormack: It's a wicked one; it's really worth listening to. He's got this guy on, Brian Greene, and it's all about physics and quantum and bullshit stuff.
American HODL: Fabric of the cosmos yes. I know Brian Greene.
Peter McCormack: It's really good, it's really engaging but he actually said something, Rogan, which I thought was quite interesting. I was thinking about it driving, I was down in London today driving down. He said, "Materialism drives innovation", because we want to consume stuff and because we want stuff, then people have to make stuff that's better and that drives us forward.
American HODL: I would 100% agree with this but you should demand better stuff. If you are going to part with your Bitcoin, the scarcest asset in humanity's history, the scarcest money that we've ever known, the hardest money we've ever known; if you are going to part with that, 1 Bitcoin could literally give untold fortune and prosperity to your descendants; if you're going to part with that you need to demand something of pristine quality, something super high quality that is actually meaningful to your life. Not plastic consumerist garbage that ends up in the Pacific Ocean, which is what we often spend our money on in this sort of high-velocity trash economy. What I'm saying is this, I would like to --
Peter McCormack: Like James Bond's car.
American HODL: Cool shit; if there was a flying car, I would want one. I would spend money to get a flying car because that would be fucking awesome right, but we don't have stuff like that. What we have is just apps and plastic garbage and so I don't want to spend money on plastic garbage, it doesn't make my life meaningfully better.
I want to hold out for something that is going to make my life meaningfully better so I will hold out until the items that I want to see, that make my life meaningfully better that change my life, come into existence. That's when I will spend Bitcoin.
Peter McCormack: I think another difference is, I think you care about your total net wealth position that you get to.
American HODL: Yeah.
Peter McCormack: I think that's an important number to you, because I think if your position takes you to billionaire status, you're like, "I fucking made it as billionaire". I don't give a shit about that; I give a shit about can I complete the game? The game is like getting through to the end of life going through as little hardship as possible, whether that's heartache and your family and financially; but if you can get through to the end of the game financially okay you've done well, because a lot of people fucking struggle. I'm going to be okay there.
American HODL: There also this thing, there's this Satoshian principle of wealth. Satoshi has a million Bitcoins, but he's never spent them. Did he burn the keys; is he dead; is he somebody with superhuman discipline? We don't know, but what we do know is that Satoshi is not taking part in the wealth that he generated for the entire world, so that creates this origin story at the heart of Bitcoin that the thing you do with Bitcoin is --
Peter McCormack: Could be a myth, you could be creating mythology.
American HODL: The coins haven't moved; that we know for certain.
Peter McCormack: We don't know why, so if we speculate --
American HODL: We don't know why, but he still is not taking part in the wealth that he created.
Peter McCormack: You could be speculating based on your bias, that you want it to be one way and it might be another way; who knows?
American HODL: The point remains that the coins have not moved, so what I'm saying is that if we are going to be the men who change the world, if we're going to be the people that change the world and we're going to follow in that path, in Satoshi's footsteps, which like, yeah, it gets a little mythological when I start speaking this way; but that is how you set the world right, by basically planting seeds in a garden that you never get to see by leaving behind a legacy, and by not spending today on cheap consumer crap, but by demanding a better future for yourself and your children.
Peter McCormack: I don't disagree with that.
BitcoinTINA: I totally agree with American HODL; I totally agree with that.
Peter McCormack: I'm not buying like cheap stupid shit.
American HODL: That Aston Martin's made of plastic.
Peter McCormack: Fuck off, that's a great car.
BitcoinTINA: You're buying expensive stupid shit.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, no, Bedford Town would be expensive stupid shit, whatever.
BitcoinTINA: I understand your wanting to do that. My only argument would be that you won't have to wait that many more years before that Aston Martin buys you really substantially more or something really substantial. I think it's only going to be a couple of years.
Peter McCormack: Firstly, like I say it's on credit so it's opportunity cost. Even if I had, it's not like I had 1 Bitcoin and I sold it today and bought that car and therefore I'm fucked for the future because I've got no Bitcoin left. I'm not even in that position. The half a Bitcoin I won off you will probably pay for that car by the end of the year. Now, then I would sell it, then I would sell it and I would probably have your name engraved in it.
American HODL: All right, that's fair.
BitcoinTINA: You could paint it on the hood and the trunk and maybe something on the side.
American HODL: The point I'm trying to make about this and I'm sure TINA has thoughts on this, is that we live in a world right now where the baby boomers broke the social contract. They left their children less than they were given. There are a lot of things that went into this. They were saddled with the embedded growth paradigm which happened post World War II, in which they had to grow at all costs in order to sustain the economy.
What they figured out was that they couldn't grow the entire pie for everyone, but what they could do is grow slices of the pie for the super wealthy and that's when you get to Reaganomics and trickle-down economics and you get to deregulation and you get to fiat currency right.
BitcoinTINA: I actually don't think that was what Reaganomics was. I think most of that comes out of Fed policy and being unwilling to take economic downturns, so you drive rates to zero.
American HODL: The macro story is that they couldn't grow the whole pie for everyone anymore and so they found a trick, a cheat code, and I agree with you that cheat code is creating a counterfeit currency essentially.
We live in this society where our parents -- for me I'm a millennial, I'm probably the age of TINA's children, or around that same age, we have been left less than we were supposed to be left and we know that and there is no social contract for us. The institutions don't work the way that they were supposed to work; we have no buy-in in our society.
At the same point in the millennial age range, the baby boomers had something like 30% of total wealth; we have like 6% of total wealth, it's a pittance compared to what was given to us. We're not going to be able to participate in the same games that the boomers had. All these mansions that are all across the sunbelt are sitting empty because boomers can't find buyers for them, because they built these shrines of stucco with faux turrets, monuments of ignorance to themselves, and they got boosted because of Fed policy.
BitcoinTINA: That's consumerism, that's real consumerism.
American HODL: Yeah, it is.
BitcoinTINA: That's a lot of dead capital, that's huge amounts of dead capital that could have gone into far more productive uses in terms of building businesses, developing technologies and it was wasted. I argue with people all the time that buying a house is a consumption item; your house is a consumption item, it's because you choose to live that way.
They were sold bill of goods that your house is an investment. Your house is not an investment, your house is a consumption item and people massively overbought their homes; the money could have gone to much better use. It was a bad use of money.
American HODL: I fully agree with TINA and what my point is here is that essentially, I don't want to follow in those footsteps of leaving nothing behind. What I've figured out, especially during the pandemic and everything, is that what I really want is to spend time with my family and to go to nice meals occasionally. That's all I really want out of life.
Peter McCormack: You told me you want to buy a plane.
American HODL: Yeah, when I'm a billionaire, I'm totally going to buy a plane, of course.
BitcoinTINA: Don't buy it, lease it. You know that joke, right?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I know that joke.
BitcoinTINA: Floats, flies.
American HODL: Four fucks, that's the end of it.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I know that one. HODL, shall we talk about our bet?
American HODL: All right, let's see what TINA thinks about it.
Peter McCormack: Because I've accepted it. HODL put out this thing on Twitter and I was tempted by it and now I've accepted it. He said he thinks Bitcoin will hit $300,000 before the end of the year, he's willing to be half a Bitcoin on it and I'm like, "Okay, I'll take that bet". It's a tricky one because I did the interview with Willy Woo and Willy fucking nails it. If you look at his analysis, he pretty much nails it every and he said he thinks it tops out around $300K, I think it comes in short.
American HODL: Willy did say $300,000 is his bearish take; that's minimum.
BitcoinTINA: I don't know what this year does. I'm much more interested in next year than I am this year.
Peter McCormack: I'm intrigued by next year.
American HODL: This is the thing, it's the people like TINA who get me to not want to take this bet, because we are seeing these really long periods of consolidation, institutions are setting the floor with all the buying that's going on. I don't know, it could be that the cycle is going to lengthen significantly and then we don't hit $300,000 in this calendar year, so it's just the timing.
BitcoinTINA: Make the bet harder, make it like $250,000, $265,000, then it becomes a much harder bet.
Peter McCormack: You want to change the terms of the bet already?
American HODL: $250,000, I don't know. I do feel extremely bullish about $300,00 but it's the timing.
BitcoinTINA: My prediction always was for this cycle of $200,000 to $400,000 minimum, but when I said that that was not 2021, that was 2021/2022/2023. By the way, the cross-asset model is $288,000 cluster for a four-year period and there's no implication of it selling off and could reach two and a half times that number, according to planB.
Peter McCormack: Corey Swan hates the model. He hates the model.
BitcoinTINA: I know he does, that's Corey's issue, but that's not the point. The point is I have always thought, number one, I expect the model to break on the upside; number two, I expect there to be basically much smaller percentage corrections with extensions because I think my framing, as I've been telling people, is last decade Bitcoin was perceived by most of the world as an illegitimate asset. So, you did not have wealthy guys coming in to want to buy Bitcoin on dips, which meant that Bitcoin dropped very significantly because you didn't have guys who were worth $20 million, $50 million, $100 million, you didn't have institutions that wanted to buy it.
I think that's different this cycle because you have that really big money that is going to be desperate to buy it because they're going to watch it go up 10X. I mean this year started the year at $29,000. If it finishes the year at $250,000 let's say, that's a pretty big increase you're talking about. What is that, 8X, 9X; that's a big number. Slight correction, I've got to buy me some of that and next year it goes from $250,000 to $500,000, $600,000, $700,000. You get a correction, year after it goes to $1.2 million, $1.3 million, $1.5 million then you front run the halving and you're at $2 million in 2024 on your way to $5 million by 2025, 2026.
So, this is all going to push much more aggressively because you're not going to have those dips and people are going to realise that they're missing out. Somewhere along the way this decade, you're going to get this flashover experience where people say, "Oh my God, I don't own this", or, "I don't own enough of this", because pretty much everybody's going to feel like American HODL does that he doesn't own enough, and me, except I don't work so I can't buy that much more.
Peter McCormack: It's like we're Clubhouse again.
BitcoinTINA: It's going to go up anywhere from 2X, 4X, 5X, 10X in the course of a month and people are going to watch a massive repricing. You're going to watch a massive repricing. You're going to watch a massive repricing.
American HODL: Tell them about the repricing, TINA, tell them about the repricing.
BitcoinTINA: It's going to be a massive repricing.
American HODL: Tell them about it.
BitcoinTINA: As people scramble to buy Bitcoin.
Peter McCormack: Listen we could talk about next year as much as we want. I have it in my head a slightly tighter range than you, I'm like it's between $250,000 and $300,000 but I think it comes short of $300,000, I do, but at the same time --
American HODL: I actually think we're going to $500,000, that's what I think; $500,000.
Peter McCormack: What I'm saying is, I'm going to take the bet because I don't think it does it, but I wouldn't be surprised, even if it hit $1 million, I wouldn't be surprised.
BitcoinTINA: This year; $1 million this year, Peter?
Peter McCormack: What I'm saying is nothing ever --
BitcoinTINA: $1 million this year?
Peter McCormack: Nothing on the upside ever surprises me. I don't think it'll happen, but like if it happened, they'll be like, "Where's Bitcoin?"
BitcoinTINA: All surprises are to the upside, I've been saying this for a few years now; all surprises are on the upside. By the way, Bitcoin's natural state, it naturally wants to go higher. Bitcoin wants to go higher. This business of crashing, that's only because we've had these stupid idiots who had too much Bitcoin who thought they could play with this market and they're wrong. They can't play with the market. Bitcoin is going to be ripped out of those sellers' hands, they will never own Bitcoin again; they will not be able to afford to own Bitcoin. They will have less because they played dumb games, and guys who hold onto their Bitcoin are going to be insanely rich.
American HODL: Tell them.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, he took some warming up. this is why I wanted you on. Why is he so chill at first? Once he gets going. HODL, are you doing the bet or what; or are you changing the terms?
American HODL: Listen, I'm going to puss out today, I'm going to puss out.
Peter McCormack: Jesus.
American HODL: I know, I know.
Peter McCormack: I cannot believe it.
American HODL: Here's the thing, you're up half a Bitcoin; I'm down a half of Bitcoin.
Peter McCormack: You can win that shit back.
American HODL: Listening to TINA's rant about Bitcoin going to $5 million and then the idea of losing another $2.5 million after I already lost $2.5 million, it hurts; it hurts a lot.
BitcoinTINA: Then I've accomplished my goal to keep Peter from getting your Bitcoin. This thing's going to be at such a high price come 2025, HODL is going to have to wear this around his neck for years and he's so young. Look how young he is, he's going to wear this for 70 years, live to be 110 and he will remember you. This will be like a permanent etched memory of Peter McCormack's existence.
Peter McCormack: He already has that.
BitcoinTINA: This bet, no, no, no.
American HODL: I want to forget, TINA. I want to forget he exists.
BitcoinTINA: I know you do.
American HODL: I know.
BitcoinTINA: Right, he's going to wear it around his neck. Pete's going to be haunted by this; don't you love American HODL? You don't want this man to be haunted by this. He's going to live for years to come. Life extension is going to be enormous with medical technology and he's going to have to think back, "That British son of a bitch cost me all that money".
American HODL: I'm going to be in the cryo tube, just like, "Peter fucking McCormack, that motherfucker".
Peter McCormack: TINA, you've already had one heart attack. I told you I was worried about you. HODL, listen, he's already got to live with this memory, I'm already half a Bitcoin up on him, so whatever happens he's already, he's got to trump me.
American HODL: That's true, that's true.
BitcoinTINA: He can put this past him; you are like a devil on his shoulder.
Peter McCormack: It's double or quits.
BitcoinTINA: You're like a devil on his shoulder trying to get another half a Bitcoin out of the man.
Peter McCormack: No, but think about it like this, if he wins the bet, he gets back to even, I'm gone, I'm out of his life in that way.
BitcoinTINA: Peter, you should have been born a woman, you'd be perfect. You are a temptress.
Peter McCormack: I thought HODL had bollocks, I didn't realise he was going to pussy out, all the big talk, giving it large on Twitter.
BitcoinTINA: I knocked American HODL out with that.
American HODL: When you're dealing with a temptress, you know.
Peter McCormack: What's the deal HODL? You're pussying out for now?
BitcoinTINA: If you want to be a good temptress you've got to shave that beard, because nobody wants that beard on the back of their neck.
American HODL: No, fuck it.
Peter McCormack: That's not true.
American HODL: Fuck it, I'll do it, let's do it, fuck it.
Peter McCormack: You'll do it, it's on.
American HODL: Let's do it.
Peter McCormack: So, how are we doing it this time, because I can't fuck it up; you said we're going to do it, like set it up, some discrete contracts.
American HODL: Okay, I'm going to have Ben come on, Ben Carman and he's going to hook us up with a DLC for this.
Peter McCormack: Is that a discrete contract?
American HODL: The Discrete Log Contract, yeah.
Peter McCormack: What is that?
American HODL: That will be the better way to do it.
Peter McCormack: What is it though?
American HODL: We have to figure out what the --
BitcoinTINA: That's a multisig that has an oracle for the decider.
American HODL: Yeah.
BitcoinTINA: So, you hold one key, HODL holds one key and the DLC holds one key, and you have to pick an oracle that says it went over that amount and then that basically signs the transaction for the winner.
Peter McCormack: Okay.
American HODL: We'll just pick like the Coinbase price or something. I don't think it will be that far off.
BitcoinTINA: You've got to make sure that not at year end; if it crosses $300K at any time during the year, then HODL wins the bet.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, that's what we've agreed.
American HODL: Yeah, yeah.
Peter McCormack: I've got to survive until midnight, 1 January.
American HODL: Till 1 January, yeah.
Peter McCormack: You hit at any other point.
American HODL: When the ball drops.
BitcoinTINA: Till midnight on UTC time?
American HODL: When the ball drops.
BitcoinTINA: That's New York time; that's New York ball-dropping?
American HODL: America runs the world, so when the Times Square Ball drops.
BitcoinTINA: Wait, you'd better be clear on this, that is not 0.00 UTC time.
American HODL: What if we get a rally on New Year's Day.
BitcoinTINA: There is a point of contention; you have to make sure that you get this precisely right.
Peter McCormack: Okay, it has to hit by midnight, New York Time, 1 January, I'm cool with that. If it hits before then at any point, you win, even if it wicks up.
American HODL: Okay, I'm in.
Peter McCormack: Even if it wicks up.
BitcoinTINA: We know for a fact it's going to hit $300,000 by New Year's Day, a few hours later; that's almost a certainty.
Peter McCormack: What?
American HODL: Just because it's --
BitcoinTINA: We know almost a certainty that it will $300K like right after the bet's over. It's like the way option contracts work; you buy an option, it expires worthless and the very next day, whatever you bought that call on goes to the moon.
American HODL: Okay.
Peter McCormack: Well, this is Rehab.
American HODL: I don't think I'm going to just barely win this bet. If I win this bet, we're going to like $500K, $700K, $800K.
Peter McCormack: I agree.
American HODL: We're going way above $300,000. If Pete wins it's because we go to like $250,000 and top out, $260,000 and top out. Yeah, we're either going to get hyper-bullish in the calendar year --
BitcoinTINA: We're not topping out because that's just the first leg of a journey to $5 million by 2025.
American HODL: Yeah, fuck, yeah, but we might still have a crypto winter, a Bitcoin winter.
BitcoinTINA: It'll last a week and a half.
American HODL: It's not a foregone conclusion.
Peter McCormack: There's a lot of confidence this year and it makes me think back to $33K by July, the confidence goes out. I don't think we have an 80% drawdown and I think that we've got some pretty heavyweight dip buyers that now exist in the market who are ready to buy up, but I wouldn't be surprised in January, we see a massive dump and we go through a bear market; it wouldn't surprise me.
American HODL: We haven't seen any exuberance yet, really, either, you know what I mean? People have been putting positions on, but we haven't seen people desperately FOMOing which tends to happen at the end, and you've got to remember that a lot of this price action happens in the last 48 hours. It all comes within 48 hours, so what we might see is like there are two days in the middle of November or early December where Pete looks like he's winning the bet all the way up until the end of the year. We're at like $150,000 and then all of a sudden, we get two days of price action where the price goes to $305,000 or whatever and I win the bet.
It's going to look like I'm losing this bet for a long time, until I finally win it. We all win when Bitcoin goes up, except for Pete who's going to lose a little.
Peter McCormack: I've spoken to my financial adviser and we agreed, if I can win half a Bitcoin off you every year, I don't ever have to sell any of my Bitcoin.
American HODL: That's where you fucked up, because my financial adviser is BitcoinTINA.
Peter McCormack: Your financial adviser, will say, "Stop betting Pete, for fuck's sake".
BitcoinTINA: Yeah, pretty much, "Stop betting Pete, for fuck's sake!"
American HODL: I also owe Jimmy Song. I have to buy Jimmy Song an expensive steak dinner if we don't hit $100K by 1 May; so we have to hit $100K in April, otherwise I owe Jimmy Song an expensive steak dinner.
Peter McCormack: You've lost that one.
American HODL: Shut the fuck up, no I haven't.
Peter McCormack: I think you've lost that one.
American HODL: We're going to $100K, stop bearing bearish. Stop being bearish.
Peter McCormack: No, it's not bearish, I think these --
American HODL: That's bearish, we're going to £100K this month, this fucking month, let's go, let's go.
Peter McCormack: I think these legs up take a bit of time. The only thing in your favour is the Coinbase --
American HODL: What's the listenership of What Bitcoin Did? What's the listenership of this show; how many millions?
Peter McCormack: Per episode, I don't know.
American HODL: No, just total.
Peter McCormack: I've done over 10 million downloads now.
American HODL: Listen, everybody who's listening to What Bitcoin Did, you need to smash buy right now, because I am not buying Jimmy Song a fucking steak; he is buying me a steak, God dammit. You all need to help me push this price to $100K.
BitcoinTINA: Do your part.
Peter McCormack: Do you know what's going to help you?
American HODL: Stack hard.
Peter McCormack: Do you what's going to help you is the Coinbase IPO is what three days away?
American HODL: Some people think that might have a downward pressure on the price; I don't agree. I think it's going to have an upward pressure or it's going to cause upward momentum on the price.
Peter McCormack: Maybe with a lag, I don't know. Does that seem expensive, like giving them $100 billion.
American HODL: You've heard the rumour that Walmart bought $1 billion worth, right?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I've heard that, yeah.
BitcoinTINA: That is massive FOMO.
American HODL: When that rumour is confirmed, that will be extremely massive FOMO, extreme, because Walmart's a lot different than Tesla, a lot different.
BitcoinTINA: I was listening to Dan Held talk about the potential public companies and I think that when you look at valuations like Coinbase, and these other companies that might become public, I think it makes Bitcoin look ridiculously stupid cheap, $1 trillion is like bupkis; it's like nothing. Bitcoin's going up so much. It looks insanely cheap to me, at these levels.
American HODL: It is.
Peter McCormack: When you think about the ratio, because that would be valuing Coinbase about a tenth of the size of Bitcoin.
BitcoinTINA: It's more than just that because he came up with a bunch of exchanges that basically get you to $300-odd billion. That's crazy, that kind of infrastructure, so the infrastructure in the space is amazing. Bitcoin is way too cheap and there are way too many morons putting money into shitcoins, that's just ridiculous.
Peter McCormack: Is Coinbase overvalued?
BitcoinTINA: No, no, I think it indicates that Bitcoin is insanely cheap that's the real issue. Bitcoin's really stupid cheap. I'm telling you, when Bitcoin passes Apple this year and I don't know when it's going to pass Apple this year, I just know that it will pass Apple this year; that's like $120,000.
American HODL: This month.
BitcoinTINA: You're going to see non-stop; it could be this month. That would be non-stop coverage on CNBC, on Fox Business, CNN or it's going to make all the news. It's going to make people's heads explode.
American HODL: Some of my most favourite most retarded Twitter bears are out there calling cycle tops currently at $60K; you haven't seen anything yet. You haven't seen fucking anything, this is nothing, we're in April. This is the beginning of fucking April; the bull run goes all year.
Peter McCormack: You need to think that though.
American HODL: If TINA's right -- dude, come on, look at the cycles.
Peter McCormack: You're down half a Bitcoin in a stake already.
American HODL: Look at where we are, do you ever follow the Halving Tracker on Twitter, Pete?
Peter McCormack: I don't know.
American HODL: I'll pull it up.
Peter McCormack: Is it an account?
American HODL: Yeah, it's an account. Hey, this is a hilarious tweet, Stoney Bitson says, "If you think PeteBitcoin is when someone buys a fancy car that gets parked in a pikey poverty garage woodshed, then you're here for the wrong fucking reason".
Peter McCormack: He totally doesn't get British humour. Why is he so angry?
American HODL: I think that one's about you, Pete.
Peter McCormack: Dude, it's because I took the Aston down to the Bedford Town Football Club with Peter Schiff.
American HODL: The Halving Tracker, this was put together by Bitstein. Basically the current price, $59K; the 2012 scaled price should be at this point in the cycle $136K; the 2016 scaled price at this point in the cycle should be $36,000; and the average scaled price is $69,000. So we're tracking more or less in between the post-2012 and the post-2016 halving.
Peter McCormack: By the way, why is Stoney so angry?
American HODL: Bro, I don't know, man. Did you do something to him? Did you stack a wallet incorrectly?
Peter McCormack: I dug a hole incorrectly. No, why is he so angry, dude? I block him all the time and then he gets banned and he comes on and he just starts yelling at me.
American HODL: That is the best part about being banned is when you get to come back, you get to get re-blocked by all the same people.
Peter McCormack: I'm not going to this time. You know him though, why is he so angry?
American HODL: I don't know him that well, I don't know what his beef is with you. Your whole thing, you decline, bro. You do this; you continually poke the hornet's nest on purpose, you know you do that.
Peter McCormack: No, I don't.
American HODL: Come on, yes you do.
Peter McCormack: No, I don't.
American HODL: 100%.
Peter McCormack: The British plebs aren't like this. The British plebs have got a lot more class.
American HODL: What do the British plebs do?
Peter McCormack: They will say, "Look, Pete, I'm a bit disappointed in you".
American HODL: I don't know, isn't Beauty on British? I think he is.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I don't know if he's a pleb. Stoney's so angry, all the time, you go on his Twitter, it's just like, "Fuck this, fuck that, you fucking statist cock". Why is he so angry? He's also got no bollocks, I'm like, "Come on the show man, we'll talk about it", and he always runs away with his little nuts. Why is he so angry? Do you know him in person?
American HODL: I don't know him in person, no. I've talked to him before.
Peter McCormack: He's so angry.
American HODL: He's a good dude, he's a good pleb, good pleb, dude.
Peter McCormack: He's just angry. What makes a good pleb?
American HODL: What makes a good pleb is just the ability to call bullshit whenever and wherever you see it. That's what makes a good pleb and stacking and living on less that you make. Living a humble lifestyle, you know.
Peter McCormack: I do that.
American HODL: Living a humble lifestyle and calling bullshit.
BitcoinTINA: Aston Martin's a humble lifestyle in the UK? Maybe you should get yourself a Rolls Royce, you could either buy one off -- no, I'm not going to say that, never mind.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, get a Rolls Royce, it's too flash. I'm pretty humble; I just make jokes about it. When I'm not being humble it's a joke; I'm trolling.
American HODL: Yeah, hey I believe you. I believe you, man.
Peter McCormack: You're the king of the plebs.
American HODL: I am definitely not the king of the plebs.
Peter McCormack: You are, whether you like it or not.
American HODL: The plebs have no king. You know the best way to be stabbed by the plebs is to declare yourself king of the plebs, then you'll immediately get stabbed in the back, as it should be.
BitcoinTINA: Absolutely.
American HODL: As it fucking should be.
Peter McCormack: When you were texting me the other day, you were like, "I run this show, the plebs look to me, I'm in charge".
American HODL: Do you know that Michael Saylor follows Dieter Bob on Twitter, do you know that?
Peter McCormack: Why? That guy's insane. Why follow Dieter?
American HODL: He's down with the cyber hornets, dude, he's down.
Peter McCormack: Dieter isn't a pleb; Dieter's just a fucking moron.
American HODL: Well, he has a mental illness, yeah.
BitcoinTINA: You probably can say whatever you want about Dieter because he probably doesn't listen to your show, so you're safe.
Peter McCormack: No, this is the funny thing because they're all like, "Fuck you", "You're an idiot", "I hate your show, especially that one you spoke to Brian Armstrong when you said this or that one…"; it sounds like you're listening to every fucking episode.
BitcoinTINA: They listen to know what they don't like.
Peter McCormack: They listen.
American HODL: The plebs beat up on TINA a little while back. TINA was taking all plebs on at once, yeah, he was fighting them all at once.
Peter McCormack: I remember that, I saw some shit, some WhatsApp messages get shared out or something. What happened there?
BitcoinTINA: I just wanted people to have some dry powder in case it went lower from these stupid sellers. I wanted people to be able to pick up their Bitcoin cheaper; it was getting crazy. That's probably the only time I ever tweeted anything that was somewhat cautious.
American HODL: For whatever reason, Bitcoin has this history where when people get status in the Bitcoin community, they end up attacking Bitcoin. So the pleb movement is sort of a defence against that; guys like Roger Ver or Jihan Wu or Jeff Garzik or Gavin Andresen, Trace Mayer. We've had a lot of Bitcoin heroes who have gotten too big for their britches and who have needed to be metaphorically stabbed in the back. The plebs are there sharpening their knives, at all times, waiting for you to mess up and the minute you do, they're going to stab you, yeah.
Peter McCormack: Waiting for Petecoin.
American HODL: They're going to stab you, yeah. The minute you launch Petecoin.
BitcoinTINA: Petecoin?
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I'm launching Petecoin next week, actually I might rename it Plebcoin for a joke.
American HODL: Just do an NFT, that's enough.
BitcoinTINA: NFT plebcoin.
Peter McCormack: A pleb FT.
American HODL: Yeah, man, don't mess with the plebs.
Peter McCormack: TINA?
BitcoinTINA: Yeah, Pete.
Peter McCormack: I thought you got banned from Clubhouse?
BitcoinTINA: I did get banned from Clubhouse. Somebody reported me for not using my real name, but it turns out BitcoinTINA is my real name. My parents were way ahead of the curve; it was very hard going through elementary school with the name BitcoinTINA.
American HODL: For anybody who has not been on Bitcoin Clubhouse, TINA is the wrecking ball of Bitcoin Clubhouse. He acts as an enforcer in every room. If you start off your sentence with even a mild whiff of shitcoiner, TINA will give you a 20-minute lecture about what a fucking idiot you are. He does this often and repeatedly and it's great and I think people in the audience really learn a lot from it and all of us on stage are pretty entertained by it.
So, I think that there was a co-ordinated attack by a bunch of shitcoiners and people that TINA was "mean" to, to get TINA reported and then ultimately banned, but the power of the plebs is stronger than Clubhouse because TINA is back on Clubhouse and he's yelling at people more than ever now, it's amazing.
BitcoinTINA: I think people who wrote in in support of me really helped a lot. All I gave them, I did not give them any real ID, I gave them the top of my Twitter profile. I said, "Look, I'm on Twitter, this is my pseudonymous brand and it's my brand". So, they wrote me back, I don't want to read what the hell they wrote but basically, "Okay, you're fine and you're back".
Peter McCormack: Are we all going to Miami?
American HODL: Yeah, fuck, yeah.
Peter McCormack: TINA, are you coming to Miami?
BitcoinTINA: Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Maybe I can stay with HODL in his Airbnb.
American HODL: There you go. I already kicked Preston Pysh out.
BitcoinTINA: I know you did, that's why I said it.
American HODL: He was trying to stay with me, I was like, "No, bro". I was like, "You're not cool, sorry Preston, you're a cool guy and all but I don't know, man, I don't know".
Peter McCormack: How can you go and kick Preston Pysh out?
American HODL: It's a pleb palace; plebs get first dibs.
Peter McCormack: With their pleb king.
American HODL: What am I supposed to say, bro? Now, I'm a little scared because I think Preston has spec ops training and I'm worried he's going to sneak in and slit my throat in the middle of the night, so got to sleep with one eye open or just stay drunk the whole time and don't go to sleep; that's my real plan for Miami.
Peter McCormack: Which plebs are going? Is it nice plebs or angry plebs?
American HODL: Bro, I don't know. They're all nice, they're good people; the plebs are good people, man.
Peter McCormack: Some of them are.
BitcoinTINA: Plebs are great people.
Peter McCormack: Some of them are fucking mean.
BitcoinTINA: Bitcoin needs to be defended. The cyber hornets defend Bitcoin and that's why.
American HODL: We're not a polite culture like you guys over there, either. America's a very brash culture, much more so than England.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I've noticed.
American HODL: We don't like being polite; being polite is a waste of time. It's inefficient.
Peter McCormack: Yeah, I've noticed that, but you're much nicer in person.
American HODL: Everybody's a douchebag on Twitter, are they not?
Peter McCormack: Exactly.
American HODL: Even Lex Fridman who "loves us all", he blocked us all.
Peter McCormack: I listened to his show, I think both Nick Carter and Pomp both did an excellent Job, I think both of them did. Especially Nick, I think Nick absolutely killed it. I don't think Bitcoin is really for -- has he had his Charles Hodgkinson's show on yet?
American HODL: I don't know, I would never listen to some show like that ever.
Peter McCormack: I'm going to listen to that one.
American HODL: It's amazing how early we are and that all this shit is still going on, like it's fucking crazy to me. Really, in my heart of hearts, I believed that people would wise up and that the shitconery would stop. This is one of the things that makes me think that we're not going to see a Bitcoin super cycle as TINA laid out, because it's too rational. It's way too rational and humans are not rational actors
These motherfuckers are out there buying jpegs, Pete. The hardest money in existence is right here, they can buy it for $60,000, you can get a million satoshis for $600, and they want to buy a fucking autograph for a jpeg? Are you fucking kidding me?
Peter McCormack: It's not an autograph.
American HODL: Like an autograph that points to a jpeg; what the fuck is wrong with you? Like how many times were these people dropped as a fucking child that they're still continuing this behaviour, it's egregious stupidity, irrational exuberance on fleek. They just can't help themselves, everybody wants to fucking mint an NFT because it's "free money".
Peter McCormack: It is yeah, yeah, it is.
American HODL: It's so aggravating to be smart, it's so fucking aggravating.
Peter McCormack: We will cover NFTs another time. I made a show with Jimmy Song about NFTs and I didn't even bother releasing it. I was just like, "What's the point, I'm just going to put it out there and everyone's going to yell at me. All the shitcoiners are just going to yell at me".
American HODL: That's true, and the Bitcoiners too.
Peter McCormack: I said to Jimmy, "I can't even be bothered to release it because it's just going to be people yelling at me". I think the shitcoiners in that way have won, because I'm almost like, I can't even be bothered to criticise it now because I just get yelled at all day, and get called Peter Shit, I can't be bothered, it's just too much.
American HODL: I think the thing with NFTs is that Bitcoin is incredibly complicated, and it takes a lot of study to understand and it's very multidisciplinary and you have to be pretty high IQ to really crock it. Whereas digital art is a pretty accessible avenue for most people to get in, right.
Peter McCormack: Yeah.
American HODL: Now, it's fucking stupid, but most people are fucking stupid unfortunately.
Peter McCormack: Exactly, so I'm getting dragged away from my kids. TINA, do you want to rant about anything before we're done?
BitcoinTINA: All we need to ever talk about is the price, so I'm done.
Peter McCormack: You're done. You don't want to shout about anything? You can, you just can't do 20 minutes.
BitcoinTINA: If I can't do 20 minutes, what's the point?
American HODL: Once TINA gets worked up, he can't stop, Peter; he's got to keep going.
BitcoinTINA: That's true, it's like going downhill.
Peter McCormack: Is it like a Formula 1 car, you've got to get it warmed up and then you can't let it cool because it dies off.
BitcoinTINA: Pretty much, yeah. I really want to stress that these people who think they should own proof of stake just don't understand anything. There's too many people who buy these garbage coins and there will be a time -- I was having this conversation with John Seth a couple of days ago and I don't know when this happens, but I expect --
Peter McCormack: I love that dude, just saying I love John Seth.
BitcoinTINA: Yeah, I do too. I expect and he expects there will be some time in the future when pretty much all the value gets sucked out of the old coins, like really fast over the course of a few weeks or a few months and just goes right into Bitcoin, because people finally realise these things don't do anything; they don't actually serve any purpose. But people are so freaking stupid; they buy so much stupid crap.
American HODL: You what's amazing, the shitcoiners are actually going to be the people that get into Bitcoin last. They're going to be the very last.
BitcoinTINA: Ironically, yes.
American HODL: Yeah, very last money in. It's going to be interesting.
BitcoinTINA: It'll be so funny when these guys are waiting on our tables; don't let them spit in your food when they're waiting on our tables in the citadels!
Peter McCormack: You're getting get me yelled at for these last comments.
American HODL: I hope you heard that Mark Cuban, don't spit in my food when you're waiting tables, banana boy.
Peter McCormack: Banana coin. Love you both, thanks both for coming on.
BitcoinTINA: Thanks, Peter.
Peter McCormack: HODL, I'll text you later when I'm in the bath. TINA, appreciate you, dude. Bet's on, right bet's on?
American HODL: Yeah, bet's on.
Peter McCormack: You're going to speak to thingy, and we'll hook up a show and we'll set it up.
American HODL: Yeah, I'll talk to Ben and we'll do a DLC for it.
Peter McCormack: Bet is on, okay, nice one. Love you both, take care.
