WBD206 Audio Transcription

Bitcoin Tax with Chandan Lodha

Interview date: Monday 16th March 2020

Note: the following is a transcription of my interview with Chandan Lodha from CoinTracker. I have reviewed the transcription but if you find any mistakes, please feel free to email me. You can listen to the original recording here.

In this bonus episode of What Bitcoin Did, I talk to Chandan Lodha, the COO of Cointracker. We discuss the ramifications of not filing crypto taxes, techniques to save money on your tax return and major exchanges getting subpoenaed.

“You can actually save crazy amounts of money by just doing some smart tax planning ahead of the tax season.”

— Chandan Lodha

Interview Transcription

Peter McCormack: Chandan, how are you doing?

Chandan Lodha: Not bad! Thanks for having me, Peter.

Peter McCormack: No problem. Look, this is a funny one because you're a sponsor at the moment, and when anyone sponsors a show, they're always like, "Pete, can we come on?" I'm always like, "if the subject's interesting, then yeah, we'll do it. Have you got an interesting story?" "Yeah, but only because of that." No, I'm always having to turn down sponsors because you can't pay for the show. Then when you asked and it's like tax, I'm like, "yeah, there's no chance, sorry mate! We're not going to have you want to talk about tax because it's really boring."

Then I'll tell you what happened, you know what happened, but I've got to explain what happened to the listeners here. I ended up putting out your first ad, do the first ad read, and I don't know if you saw it, but there was somebody on Twitter and there was somebody on Reddit and they're like, "what the fuck are you doing Pete? Why have you got a tax company on your podcast? Why are you supporting the taxman? Why are you helping the man? Tax is theft."

I was like, "ah shit, well I pay tax." That's when I reached out to you and I was like... Actually I told you, but then I saw you in San Francisco, and I was like, "someone's giving me some shit Chandan, they're saying I shouldn't be supporting a tax company, but I like paying my tax." Then that was when you told me about the subpoenas, right?

Chandan Lodha: Exactly!

Peter McCormack: Listen, I think we've got to do this show because we've got to tell some of the stories. It doesn't matter how long this one is, because we've got to get it out there and man the messages, but we've got to tell these stories because I didn't know about these subpoenas. I've switched up the ad now, have you heard the latest version?

Chandan Lodha: Yeah, I've been listening to the show.

Peter McCormack: I've changed up the ad, and rather than just saying, "this is the best tech service in the world," I've been actually saying, "look, if you don't want to pay your tax, don't pay it. I do, but if you're going to ignore your tax, then these are the risks you face." Let's do it, because we are in tax season, tell me about these subpoenas.

Chandan Lodha: Yeah, for sure. Just to put it out there, it's not like I love tax, it's about just getting the information out there, and people can do with it what they please. One other things I just want to say up front is that I am not a CPA, so this is meant for informational purposes. If you want tax advice, we encourage you to talk to a tax advisor. To address your question about the subpoenas, so basically, the tax authorities definitely want to make all the revenue that they can, especially from folks who have made a lot of money on cryptocurrency trading.

One of the levers they've been pulling to help enforcement efforts around tax collection is subpoenaing the exchanges, which is the sort of centralized choke point where they know people have records of what trades people have made. This has happened both domestically in the US, for example with Coinbase, but also now starting to happen internationally, for example with BitStamp getting subpoenaed by the IRS as well.

Peter McCormack: So they're subpoenaing international companies?

Chandan Lodha: Yeah, they are.

Peter McCormack: For me, a subpoena doesn't sound good, but what does that actually mean? Because I'm not American.

Chandan Lodha: Basically in layman's terms, what it means is the IRS presents a legal order to the exchange saying, "We want XYZ records." In the original case with Coinbase, what happened was, they said, "We want all the trading information and all the records you have around all your users."

If I recall correctly, basically Coinbase took them to court and said, "This request is overbroad," and so they ended up settling, with the judge ruling that they would basically turn over the records for users that had met a sufficient threshold of trading. I think it was people who had traded over 200 trades and over $20,000 worth of trade volume, so it was tens of thousands of traders on Coinbase.

Peter McCormack: Wow, so they actually had to hand over that information, and then what? The IRS can just start getting in touch with these people?

Chandan Lodha: That's exactly what happened. They handed it over, they were legally compelled to do this based on the judicial ruling, and they basically sent out tens of thousands of warning letters starting in the end of summer 2019, about six months ago. Basically, these letters started warning people, saying, "Hey, we know you have cryptocurrency, we know you've made cryptocurrency trades, don't forget to file your taxes."

That was the milder version of the letter, to the more extreme ones, which were, "You owe XYZ dollars. If you don't respond within 30 days, you're going to hear from us again, and there's going to be fees and penalties and things like that."

Peter McCormack: Wow, so it was quite full-on then.

Chandan Lodha: Yeah, and not just in the US. Actually just this past week, the ATO, the Australian Taxation Office, said that they were going to start sending out 350,000 of these letters, which is I think the biggest version of this I've seen.

Peter McCormack: It's a weird one, because I obviously don't like it, I don't like the fact that they can just go and request your information from a company. It's like you don't have any privacy anymore with a company, it's like you sign up and you create a service with Coinbase, but you have no privacy anymore because they can just go and request your information.

Chandan Lodha: You definitely have to be careful. There's a good reason to be privacy conscious, and anytime you're using a service that KYCs, you should be aware that that information is KYC'ed for a reason and there's some government organization or regulation that is forcing them to do that, which means there is a risk that that information could be turned over to authorities at some point. If you're using a KYC product exchange, there is a risk.

Peter McCormack: Why did they set that threshold? Why 200 trades and $20,000? Is it you're probably under a tax threshold at $20,000?

Chandan Lodha: There's basically some precedent for that in the non-crypto world. For example, if you're using a payment processor like PayPal or some other kinds of non crypto financial products, there's that same threshold of 200 transactions and $20,000 worth of proceeds in order to trigger certain tax forms. They basically match that same threshold over for this case.

Peter McCormack: Right, so basically what we're saying is if you're going to trade crypto, Bitcoin, whatever, and you're going to use it on a KYC exchange and you're based in the US, if you're not going to pay your taxes, there's a bit of risk there. You're basically taking a gamble if you're not going to pay your taxes. What are the penalties?

Chandan Lodha: It depends on basically how under reported this is. This is actually another area where it can sometimes be advantageous to just file something. For example, in the case of the IRS, there's a three-year statute of limitations, which means the IRS is only going to go back three returns in order to audit you or examine your account. If you have gross under reporting of your income, like over 25% of your income under reported, then they can go back six years, but if you haven't reported anything at all, then they can go back unlimited number of years and they can go audit you back 20 years, 50 years, as many years as they want.

Keep in mind, these are transactions that are often happening on a blockchain, which means they're on a public ledger forever. In terms of the penalties, it'll just depend on how much under reporting there is, what the circumstances were, if you were aware that you were under reporting or not. It can range from settling with the IRS with some amount of penalties or fees, up to, in some criminal cases, can actually lead to prison time.

Peter McCormack: What, really? Has that happened?

Chandan Lodha: It definitely has with some of the IRS criminal investigations divisions around people who are using cryptocurrency for some kind of more heinous crimes. For example, the IRS criminal investigations division just put two folks to trial, or they indicted two folks who were basically doing large scale money laundering for other kinds of illegal activities using stolen cryptocurrency.

Peter McCormack: Okay, but you're not going to get put in jail just for the tax avoidance, right?

Chandan Lodha: It's definitely less likely, but again, it would depend on the scale. If you were doing criminal tax evasion at large scale, that's definitely a risk.

Peter McCormack: All right, listen, look, I've got some questions about this, because the funny thing is, I pay my taxes, and I pay my taxes on my Bitcoin, but there was a period earlier on when I first started trading crypto where I didn't do a proper tax return. I just didn't do it, because I was trading on different exchanges, didn't really know what I was doing, it was very early on, wasn't taking it seriously.

I spoke to my accountant, she said that we had to do a declaration and that we had to go to the tax man, and just be honest and say, "look, this is what happened," and do some kind of decoration, which is called an undoing. One of the things I was unsure about is, I don't even have access to some of the exchanges I traded with. What do people do in a situation like that?

Chandan Lodha: This actually happens way more frequently than people would like to admit, is used an exchange that was shut down or it got hacked, or it turned off API access, or it doesn't exist anymore, what are you supposed to do? The IRS and other tax authorities are definitely aware of this because it happens so frequently. What we recommend folks to do in this situation is try to report to the best of your ability, which means if you have any records, if you have any CSVs or downloads or spreadsheets, if you have any access to the exchange, start there.

If you don't, look for other kinds of records that you might have, could be bank records, blockchain addresses, hash IDs, emails, bank transfer, whatever you have. If it really had absolutely nothing, then just do your best to estimate from memory just to have some record of something, because if you report something, you're triggering that statute of limitations to count off. If you're reporting something, it shows that you're making a best effort, versus if you do absolutely nothing, that's a way where a scenario when the tax man comes to you and says, "Why didn't you report anything?" versus, "Hey, I tried my best, and this is what I have."

Peter McCormack: That was what my accountant was saying to me, she was like, "Look, you've got to do something about this." I think it was a period of '17, early '18, she was like, "You've got to do something about that, because if you don't put anything in and they come after you, it looks like you're hiding something, and they might do a deep dive research into your background." Which is cool, I've got nothing to hide, so I'm happy to do that, but I do have another question. Another thing that's on my mind is there's different ways it's calculated.

I don't know how much you know about the UK, but say they've got two ways of calculating the tax on crypto. There is capital gains and that's at the point of sale of the specific coin. You sell that, what was the gain on that coin? I can't remember what the amount is, but if you did some frequent high volume trading, it could have been per trade ... No, no, in that scenario it was per trade, but if you were a frequent high volume trader, it was based on the profitability of your trading during that period.

Chandan Lodha: Yeah, exactly.

Peter McCormack: It's the ones where it's per trade, the one that always weirds me out is that, and I know this has happened to other people, you can end up owing more tax than money you've actually made, which doesn't seem fair or right. A lot of people were probably just trading in and out, not really thinking about they're to pay a per tax trade. What have you seen with these kind of scenarios? Do they just have to pay the tax, or they can discuss this and negotiate it?

Chandan Lodha: This is a really unfortunate situation, and it happens oftentimes due to the volatility of the market, and it happens not just in the UK, it can happen in the US or in other tax regimes as well. It's not even actually limited to just crypto, it can actually happen with other types of assets too, like for example, stocks. What happens is you can make an unrealized gain in one tax year, and then have a loss that incurs in the following tax year, but you still have a gain that you made in the first year.

I'll give you a really simple example. Let's say you buy 1 Bitcoin for $10, and then the Bitcoin starts mooning, it's so great, everyone loves the store of value for Bitcoin, it goes to $1,000. Then you're super happy about it, so you say, "You know what? I've heard about ETH, ETH sounds so great, I'm going to trade my $1,000 Bitcoin for 10 ETH." Now you've realized a $990 capital gain, tax man says, "You owe taxes on this." Next year rolls around, and right before you're paying your taxes, price of ETH crashes, DeFi is shutting down, now the price of that ETH is zero.

In the grand scheme of things, you went from $10 to $0, you have a loss, but in the eyes of the tax man in the tax year, you had a $990 tax capital gain, and you're going to have to pay taxes on that, it could be hundreds of dollars. This actually happened to a bunch of people when they were trading altcoins or when they were just going crazy with shitcoins, not realizing that each crypto-to-crypto trade was taxable, but then not tax loss harvesting their portfolio before the end of the tax year, meaning that they had incurred all these gains and they had realized all these gains.

They were actually realized, not unrealized like I said earlier, but they didn't have enough money to actually pay those taxes come the following tax year. In those cases, people can actually end up in really tough circumstances, and oftentimes you might end up having to work directly with the tax authorities to figure out some kind of payment plan, maybe some kind of fee assistance or a long-term repayment program. They're not going to let you off the hook just because you didn't know the tax rules. What you can do to mitigate...

Peter McCormack: It is kind of bullshit though, because you say realized, but it isn't really realized because you've never had the money in your pocket. The other thing is, a lot of these coins can be illiquid shitcoins that you can't get out of.

Chandan Lodha: Yep, that's totally fair. One thing that's totally different about the crypto space compared to other spaces is you can do all these crypto-to-crypto trades, people aren't typically trading Google stock for Facebook stock. It can be really total bullshit, to use your words, when you are trading crypto-to-crypto and accumulating a tax bill. That's how the tax rules are written though.

Peter McCormack: It's different in the UK. They changed it, so if you're a high frequency trader, they treat it like a business, and it's the profits on all the trades.

Chandan Lodha: That's right.

Peter McCormack: Which I think is a better scenario, because at least you forget that crypto-to-crypto is kind of like the profit you've made at the end of the trading period. I think it's the profit you've made in once you've converted back to pounds as well, and I need to confirm that, but I'm guessing that's not the same as in the US, right?

Chandan Lodha: I don't believe it's whether you've converted back to pounds, I think it's just an aggregate. You use basically the total profit and loss, which is actually the same as in the US. If you're a full time crypto trader, you could also use the same income based regime, where it would be a full profit and loss but it would still be in crypto at the end of the year, and so instead of having capital losses or gains, you would have income losses and gains. But it could still get you in hot water if you were doing crypto-to-crypto trades.

Peter McCormack: I think that's a better scenario though, then at least at that point, it's based on at least the profit you've made, right?

Chandan Lodha: Yes, you could still get up in a tricky situation though if you made profit in the tax year, and then everything just drops down right after the tax year, before you pay your tax bill.

Peter McCormack: Because you have a loss the following year, but you can claim on that loss, but that's on future earnings, right?

Chandan Lodha: Exactly, so it would net out after the next tax year, but in that intermediary timeframe, you would have a cashflow issue.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, while we're stuck in a bear market.

Chandan Lodha: Exactly, which can be tough.

Peter McCormack: Interesting! Are there any other nuances between country to country that people need to think about?

Chandan Lodha: There are definitely different tax rules in each country. The biggest one that we commonly see is the way that you're allowed to account for your capital gains and losses. Basically, if you have a crypto portfolio, even if it's just all one coin, like let's say you're all Bitcoin, if you're buying Bitcoin in different exchanges or holding them in different wallets, which Bitcoin is sold, for a tax perspective, when you sell that Bitcoin? There is an incredible amount of accounting work that can go into this. The simplest example in the US for example, is first in first out. Pretty simple, first Bitcoin you bought, first Bitcoin you sold.

For people who are trying to do more sophisticated stuff, you can actually get into specific identification, meaning you're actually picking in a specific accounting lot that you are selling when you are selling the coin. The reason you would do all of this is you can actually dramatically lower your tax bill by doing this. It's tricky to do it by hand, but there are software programs that will basically automatically do this for you.

Peter McCormack: Dude listen, I don't know how anyone would do or calculate their taxes without using software, certainly traders. I've got no idea how you would process hundreds and hundreds of transactions. I tried your tool and I plugged in my wallets and exchanges and it calculated my tax, and actually, do you know what? I was surprised how low my tax was, but that was because I hadn't actually really been selling any Bitcoin. I've been stacking satisfied, it was based on capital gains, but I just don't know how anyone would do this manually. We're talking, some people are, what, tens of thousands of trades?

Chandan Lodha: That's basically the reason why we started working on this software at CoinTracker to begin with, is we were trying to solve this problem for ourselves. It's a total nightmare to do it by hand. The best way to avoid this nightmare, by the way, like you said, is to stack sats and not sell, not trade, buy and hodl. If you do end up having those transactions, or even if you just want to keep track of what your portfolio looks like from an accounting perspective to understand your financial health, then software is definitely the way to go. There's a bunch of software out there, you can even make your own spreadsheet, but it is typically a lot easier to do this with software.

Peter McCormack: All right, so listen, look, bearing in mind I've been very irresponsible and not really paid any attention to this shit for the last few years, I ran through the software this time, I've got my tax calculation, it was cool. Handed it over to my accountant, she loved it, all the hard work done for her, which is great. If I was wanting to plan ahead next year, if I want to get my shit together, everything in order, what are the things that I can be doing to reduce my tax burden next year? What are the main bits of advice you would be giving?

Chandan Lodha: This is a great question, and anyone can do this. You can actually save crazy amounts of money by just doing some smart tax planning ahead of the tax season. The number one thing is, first, make sure you have all your transactions recorded somewhere. For example, if you're using tax software, you can use something like CoinTracker and you can basically plug in all of your exchanges, your wallets into one place. It will automatically reconcile all your transactions so you can immediately get a sense of, what coins do I have, how much are they worth, how long have I held them?

The second thing you want to do is consider taking advantage of certain kinds of tax strategies that we hinted at before. The number one thing here is tax loss harvesting, and without going into too much mumbo jumbo about accounting, basically what you're doing is you are selling any assets that you have at a unrealized capital loss and then buying them back. The effect of this is you have the same exact portfolio, the same exact coins, but you have less tax. It sounds ridiculous, but it's basically a tax loophole, especially in the US, that allows you to do this.

Peter McCormack: What? Tell me that again, what are you doing?

Chandan Lodha: You're basically selling your coins that are at an unrealized capital loss, so something that you bought and it dropped in value, and then you're buying them back.

Peter McCormack: Who am I selling them to?

Chandan Lodha: It doesn't matter, anyone! It could be an exchange, could be to someone else. You could literally just sell on the exchange and buy it back, and that would be tax loss harvesting. The reason why you can do this is because you are basically realizing your capital loss, and then just buying the coins back at a lower price. The same exact coins, you have the same exact portfolio, but you've realized a capital loss that you can write off your taxes.

Peter McCormack: Hold on, is this kind of like the opposite of what we were talking about earlier?

Chandan Lodha: It's the opposite of what we were talking about earlier, exactly. You can take advantage of that strategy to benefit you as well.

Peter McCormack: Like right now, we've had a price drop because the world's about to end with coronavirus, so you could sell a bunch, realize that loss, take that into your tax calculations, and then that allows you to be more profitable next year?

Chandan Lodha: Basically what you would do is you would sell all your coins that are at an unrealized loss, buy them back, and you have the same exact coins, but you would have this huge tax loss that you could then use to offset any gains that you had in other types of assets. Like let's say somehow miraculously you made a gain in your stock trading portfolio, you could offset those gains. You can also offset some amount of income, and you can roll over any excess net losses to future years. In the future if you do have gains, you can reduce those gains with the losses you had this year.

Peter McCormack: Dude, that's so sneaky.

Chandan Lodha: Yeah. Basically tax is total bullshit, but it's also a weapon you can use in your favour if you understand it.

Peter McCormack: Based on what you've been doing, you must have come across people who have been very negligent with their tax. Are there any kind of scary stories about people that people should be aware of?

Chandan Lodha: We have all kinds of ridiculous stories, both scary ones and just absolutely comical ones too, maybe I could give you one example of both. On the scary side, there's definitely people who get some scary letters from the tax authorities, from the IRS in particular. We work with a lot of US users, for example, who got these warning letters from the IRS after they had either under filed or not filed their cryptocurrency taxes, with things saying they owed huge amounts of taxes.

One case, over $1 million, another case, $800,000, lots of cases in the tens of thousands of dollars, and these users basically don't have anywhere near that amount of money. Maybe they did a lot of trading and they got stuck in one of these situations where their unrealized bill was really high but they hadn't actually had that much realized gains, or maybe they had got an incomplete picture of their trading from one exchange reporting to the IRS, which is a huge issue, because if you're trading across multiple exchanges or wallets, you might have withdrawn funds somewhere else, and then suddenly that exchange doesn't have that full information.

Anyways, the IRS comes, sends you a scary letter, says you owe $1 million in taxes and you have nowhere near that amount. In these cases, we've helped these users both get all their transactions in order, create a unified ledger, draft a response, and in some cases, get that amount to an actual refund from the IRS once we've actually calculated everything properly. This has actually happened multiple times.

Peter McCormack: A refund?! You've turned a million into a refund?

Chandan Lodha: I'm not sure if that million one. I think in the case of the million one, it ended up dramatically reducing by multiple orders of magnitude. I think there was another one where someone owed tens of thousands and it ended up in a refund.

Peter McCormack: Why is that, how come?

Chandan Lodha: The reason is because often when these letters are drafted, they're not taking into account the full financial picture of a user. They're just taking a snapshot of maybe just what you did on Coinbase or just what you did on one exchange, and what actually ends up happening is maybe you did some trades there and had some gains, but then you withdrew those funds to a cold wallet or to a different exchange. Suddenly, there is an incomplete view of what you did, and that can make it seem like you have incurred way more trading or way more gains than what you actually did.

Another example is, let's say you bought one Bitcoin for $10,000, and then you traded it back and forth between US dollars and Bitcoin 100 times. In the eyes of the IRS, that could seem like you have traded 10,000 times 100, so $1 million worth of transactions, when in reality, maybe the price of Bitcoin went from $10,000 to $11,000, back to $10,000, up to $11,000, back to $10,000, and so you only made $1,000 of gains a few times.

They are basically not taking into account the full picture of how much you bought it for, how much you sold it for, which exchanges you moved it to. That's where these tax softwares can help give you that full picture, the full record, and then a response to the IRS saying, "Hey look, here are all my records. I did everything right, why are you billing me this huge amount? That's totally ridiculous."

Peter McCormack: Do you think the tax situation with crypto is unfair? Are people like you looking at it and thinking there needs to be rule changes here?

Chandan Lodha: Definitely! The amount of gaps in what the rules are and how it works is pretty astounding. On the one hand, I will give some of these tax authorities a little bit of credit in the sense that this space is super nascent, it's changing all the time. There's Lightning, there's DeFi, there's margin trading, there's new exchanges, there's wallets, there's all this crazy stuff happening all the time and it's hard to keep up with it even if you're in this space, but imagine being a regulator!

I think on the one hand, it's tough for them, but on the other hand, my God, like it's so hard to comply with these rules when they're so unclear and there's so many loopholes, and it's already really, really confusing.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, because there's that whole thing where every time you spend Bitcoin say, even if it's Lightning, if you spend Bitcoin, if you buy a cup of coffee on Lightning, if you've realized a gain when you've made that payment, you owe tax on that, right?

Chandan Lodha: Right, and that's total nonsense! Like who the hell is ever going to be expected to figure out their taxes on a cup of coffee? Actually one positive change to the tax code that we have actually helped talk to Congress about and we hope other people will support too is a de minimus exception, which would basically make it so that if you have small transactions like this, they're just exempt from tax, you don't have to think about it. That would help both with innovation and adoption, because you can't have a currency where people are thinking about taxes on every single micro transaction.

Peter McCormack: That's probably the way the government likes it and it makes it really difficult for us. Should people hate CoinTracker, are you working for the man?

Chandan Lodha: We hear this a lot, and I totally get it. Taxes are boring, taxes are annoying, screw the man. If that's your perspective, that's totally fine, that's a reasonable point of view. I think from our perspective, it's kind of like this is an optional service, no one's forcing you to use it. It can help you get your taxes in order if you want to stay out of the crosshairs of the IRS or other tax authorities, and in many cases we can help you save a ton of money.

Like we've helped our users save over $200 million of capital losses using some of these tax strategies. In a lot of cases, it's a free service where you can literally save money and pay the tax man less money. From that perspective, I think it actually can often have a really positive benefit for you in terms of paying less tax.

Peter McCormack: All right, cool! How's business going? Are you guys crushing it?

Chandan Lodha: Yeah, things have been good overall. We had over 4x the number of new tax filers year over year in February of this year compared to last year, although who knows with this new recession and crazy times with lockdowns everywhere, we'll see how things go. Another thing that may happen, we don't know yet, is there may be a tax extension granted in some countries because of just chaos of what's happening in the world. We'll see, it's going to be a chaotic year.

Peter McCormack: Are you guys on lockdown there?

Chandan Lodha: We are, yeah. Everyone's remote, work from home indefinitely until further notice.

Peter McCormack: Is it voluntary lockdown right now, or is it enforced? Is the army on the streets keeping you...

Chandan Lodha: I was watching your previous episodes around Chile and things like that and that hasn't happened yet, but you never know. I had just read an article actually right before we jumped on this interview from the SF Chronicle, our local newspaper, saying that we're basically in "take shelter mode" in San Francisco now. You're not supposed to go anywhere unless it's absolutely essential, so you're allowed to go to the pharmacy and the grocery store, and you can go on walks or runs if you're staying six feet or more away from other people, but there's no meetings of any kind allowed outside anymore.

Peter McCormack: But you guys can do remote, you're an online business. All right, listen, look, this stuff is super useful, I think people need to hear it. This will be a nice little bonus show we'll get out for people. If somebody hasn't heard the ad on there, want to find out a bit more about CoinTracker, tell them about the business. How do they find out more about you guys?

Chandan Lodha: It's pretty straightforward, the website is cointracker.io. There's actually a discount if you're coming from this episode, cointracker.io/a/wbd for What Bitcoin Did. In essence, we offer free cryptocurrency portfolio tracking and cryptocurrency tax service, it's free for users up to 200 transactions a year, and there's the discount for people who have more.

It basically will make your portfolio tracking and taxes super simple, and it's available online, it's also you can check it out on the App Store and the Play Store. Give us a check, and if you have questions, please feel free to reach out to us on Twitter, we're @CoinTracker.

Peter McCormack: Cool, and how much did you pay me to record this show?

Chandan Lodha: I can't disclose that amount, your fees are super high, Peter! I'm just kidding, there was no payment for being on the show, and I appreciate you having it despite a lot of people hating taxes.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, I know. Look, listen, but it happens, because what it is, people always want to pay to come on the show and also everyone wants to criticize everything. I think every sponsor I've ever had has been criticized, so don't worry about that. Look, appreciate you sponsoring the show and I appreciate you doing this on short notice. I think we should get this out, hopefully people will get something from it, and yeah, wish you the best man!

Chandan Lodha: I really appreciate it. Thank you so much Peter. Stay safe, stay healthy!

Peter McCormack: Thanks man!